HL Deb 15 March 1982 vol 428 cc391-2

2. 48 p.m.

Lord Bruce of Donington

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will cause an investigation to be made into the circumstances in which Mr. S. K. Chutani, a flying instructor, became as from 12th February last liable for a fee of £100 for each landing of his aircraft at Elstree Aerodrome where the normal landing fee is £2.20; and into the conditions upon which the Montclare Shipping Company Limited are permitted the operating monopoly of Elstree Aerodrome and further to extend this monopoly to the London School of Flying, to the detriment of a growing number of flying students.

Lord Lyell

My Lords, inquiries have been made about the position. I understand that Elstree Aerodrome is privately owned by the Montclare Shipping Company Limited, who operate it under ordinary licence issued by the Civil Aviation Authority. This enables the licensee to give or withhold permission for his aerodrome to be used as he thinks fit. The terms under which permission is given are a matter between him and the users. I regret that, in the circumstances, I cannot comment on the fees charged to Mr. Chutani or any agreements between the aerodrome and the London School of Flying.

Lord Bruce of Donington

While thanking the Minister for that reply, my Lords, may I ask whether he would agree that, on the face of it, the charges seem to be wholly disproportionate, particularly bearing in mind that a landing fee becomes payable every time circuits and bumps are done, and that therefore a very large sum can be accumulated within a matter of hours? In regard to the ordinary licence granted to the airport operator, may I ask the noble Lord to say whether any conditions attach to that licence; whether the licence is renewable and, if so, when; and whether there is any machinery for objection to be made to the renewal of the licence or indeed its continuance?

Lord Lyell

My Lords, the licence under which Elstree Aerodrome is operated is laid down in the Air Navigation Order 1980. The grant of the licence is regulated under Article 87 of that order, and of course the Civil Aviation Authority may attach conditions to the grant of the licence. Any of those conditions would concern the safety of aircraft operations. If there are any complaints or specific problems as to a licence between an individual and the private owner of the aerodrome, that would leave any aggrieved individual in the position of taking the normal action which would be available to any other aggrieved individual.

Lord Balfour of Inchrye

My Lords, can the Minister say whether this exhorbitant landing fee represents an individual discrimination or a general raising of levels? The Minister says that the airport is privately owned, but is it not within the powers of the Civil Aviation Authority to suspend the licence for as long as this absurd state of affairs continues at what is probably the most valuable private and commercial small airfield in London?

Lord Lyell

My Lords, when an aerodrome is licensed for public use, as opposed to ordinary use, then of course the aerodrome must be available to all persons on equal terms and equal conditions. But the airfield at Elstree is licensed under the Air Navigation Order for merely ordinary use, and is available for the use of the licensee and persons who are specifically authorised by the licensee. Under the current licensing regulations there is no requirement that all users should be accepted on the same terms so far as landing fees or any conditions are concerned.

Lord Bruce of Donington

My Lords, will the noble Lord take note o f the fact that this matter has been referred to the Race Relations Board?

Lord Lyell

My Lords, I shall certainly take note of the position, but I think that I should not comment any further.

Lord Airedale

My Lords, is the scale of the licence fees being charged by the licensee a consideration that can be taken into account by the Civil Aviation Authority in deciding whether or not to renew the licence?

Lord Lyell

My Lords, I think that the noble Lord is under a slight misapprehension. It is not the licence fees that are at issue, but rather the landing fees that are being charged by the licensee to a private individual. So far as the main part of the noble Lord's supplementary question is concerned, the answer is, no.

Baroness Llewelyn-Davies of Hastoe

My Lords, could this be said to be an argument against privatisation in general?

Lord Lyell

My Lords, so far as the other 150 licensed airfields are concerned, I do not think so.

Baroness Llewelyn-Davies of Hastoe

We do, my Lords.