HL Deb 11 March 1982 vol 428 cc302-3

3.4 p.m.

The Marquess of Ailesbury

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government how many historic house owners have been allowed to break agreements into which they freely entered when obtaining public money in grants for repairs.

The Earl of Avon

My Lords, the number of owners who fail to comply with conditions of grant is unknown, as it is not practicable to keep a continuous check on all properties which have received grant. However, relatively few cases of non-compliance are brought to the attention of the Department of the Environment. In these cases it is rare that some agreement cannot be reached with owners in the public interest.

The Marquess of Ailesbury

My Lords, I thank the noble Earl for that reply. If these agreements can be broken with impunity—as clearly happened in the case to which he kindly gave me a helpful Written Answer on 9th February—that does not exactly encourage the others to stick to their agreements, as they surely should.

The Earl of Avon

My Lords, that happened pre-1979, and, of course, since 1979 the Secretary of State has been able to reclaim grants already paid if conditions of grant are not met.

Baroness Birk

My Lords, is not the matter about which we are concerned that of agreements involving access to the houses? Is it not true that now the houses are advertised in the Historic Houses Guide? Does this include "by appointment" houses?—because, when I was a Minister in charge of the department, one of the problems was the "by appointment houses" which had received grants; sometimes it was very difficult for people to get in to see them. Is not one of the answers that, if people cannot get access to a house which is on the list and which can be visited, they should complain either to the Department of the Environment or the Historic Buildings Council as soon as possible?

The Earl of Avon

My Lords, yes, indeed, public access to the property is one of the normal standard conditions, as the noble Baroness has said; and this should be advertised in two separate journals, again as she said. But whether or not that is so for "by appointment" houses, I am not absolutely certain. However, I shall check and confirm that with her. Again, as she rightly said, the very fact that the public complain, brings this to the attention of the department.