HL Deb 21 June 1982 vol 431 cc800-2

2.59 p.m.

Lord Beswick

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government when, in accordance with Schedule 10 to the Transport Act 1981, they expect the regulations prescribing the requirements for road humps to be ready.

The Earl of Avon

My Lords, these regulations are being prepared, and we hope to have ready soon a draft for consultation with representatives of outside organisations, which is required under the Act. The rate of progress thereafter will inevitably depend on the results of the consultation, but the regulations will be made and laid before Parliament as soon as possible.

Lord Beswick

My Lords, I am much obliged to the noble Earl for that Answer. Can he give me any idea of what he means by "soon"? May I also ask the noble Earl whether he will agree with me that if a noble Lord puts down a non-oral Question genuinely seeking information, asking when the order is to be laid, it is not quite good enough to say, "When it is ready"?

The Earl of Avon

My Lords, I quite understand the noble Lord's point, and in fact I looked for him towards the end of last week to see whether I could supplement the Answer that was given to me. What has happened regarding the regulations is that technical advances were made by the end of last year, and instructions were ready by the beginning of January for the legal department; but, unfortunately, we have had a little trouble with the legal department because of pressure of work. It may seem strange, but the lawyer in question was involved in the international and European Community traffic, which has been very highly pressed over the last few months for reasons which, obviously, the noble Lord will understand. However, things are progressing well now. I would have said that we might be three months behindhand, and we shall try to catch up.

Lord Lucas of Chilworth

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that there is a large body of opinion which will be pleased with his Answer and will take some comfort from the fact that nothing greatly is lost by the delay in bringing these orders before Parliament?

The Earl of Avon

My Lords, I note what my noble friend has said, and I am sure that it has nothing to do with the term "sleeping policemen".

Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos

My Lords, if there is a delay of this kind, is it not quite wrong to say that this is not a serious matter? Is the noble Earl saying to the House that the department is short-staffed; that the legal department is unable to carry on with its work because of the lack of qualified lawyers to do it? In view of the Government's attitude toward reduction in the Civil Service, would he not say that really this discloses a most serious situation in the department and one which needs to he looked at very carefully; and would he come down to the House to make a statement fairly soon to inform noble Lords that the position is not as serious as he has now disclosed?

The Earl of Avon

My Lords, I do not know that there is any necessity to come back to the House to do any such thing. There are no serious shortcomings at all. This is one particular case where one man has to do two jobs; and I am sure the noble Lord would not wish a whole series of lawyers to be sitting there ready to do anything which comes up. This gentleman has had to do the motorcycle test, which I know my noble friend Lady Macleod is very interested in; and, of course, it is impossible for one man to do everything at once. I would have thought that at the moment the Department of Transport has just about exactly the right number of people it should have.

Lord Underhill

My Lords, would the noble Earl the Minister confirm that I am correct in assuming that his reply to the noble Lord, Lord Lucas, means that the Government are still in full support of the proposal for road humps, as contained in the 1981 Bill? Secondly, could he say whether any discussions at all have taken place with the organisations which the Minister is required to consult about the contents of these regulations? Have any consultations taken place yet?

The Earl of Avon

Yes, indeed, my Lords. If I could repeat what I said to the noble Lord, Lord Beswick, indeed we are just about to hold the consultations which are required by the Act. Because of unforeseen circumstances, we are about two months behind what was our own plan.

Lord Beswick

My Lords, I do not wish to appear to be in conflict with the noble Lord, Lord Boyd-Carpenter, who wishes the traffic to flow rather quicker through London. I am asking it to flow a little slower, but only in certain residential areas.

The Earl of Avon

My Lords, whether you like to push a pram along a road or across a "sleeping policeman" is up to you.