§ Baroness Burton of CoventryMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether, if necessary in conjunction with the Civil Aviation Authority, the Trades Union Congress and the International Transport Federation, they will take steps to initiate action for the co-ordination of air traffic control in Europe so that the considerable deviation in mileage on air routes drawn up by Governments in Europe may be reduced; and whether they will make a Statement in view of the fact that the agreement on Euro-control expires in 1983.
§ Lord LyellMy Lords, the main reason for deviations from direct air routes is the need to reserve airspace for military purposes. No amount of air traffic control in Europe will eliminate this. The noble Baroness may perhaps underestimate what is being achieved in the field of air traffic control co-ordination. The European Organisation for the Safety of Air Navigation, which I am sure she knows—also known as Euro-control—is making considerable progress, particularly in air traffic flow management. In addition, the European Air Navigation Planning Group of the International Civil Aviation Organisation is active in this field. This body includes representatives of the International Federation of Airline Pilots' Associations; so there is already an effective trade union input into the discussions.
§ Baroness Burton of CoventryMy Lords, without intending any discourtesy to the Minister, is he aware how much I appreciated the note from the Secretary of State explaining that he could not be here today? Reverting to what the Minister has said, does he realise that it is generally agreed that the deviation in mileage in Europe is some 15 per cent. and that knowledgeable people in the industry believe that this could well be reduced by 10 per cent., with a very large saving thereby of aviation spirit? May I ask him, secondly—and I am aware of what he has told me—whether it would be possible to ask IATA to pursue this matter so that a world body would be in a position of asking air pilots' associations if the air pilots themselves in Europe could give indications of the traffic control in their own particular airports?
§ Lord LyellMy Lords, if I may take first the second supplementary question the noble Baroness asked, 630 the International Federation of Airline Pilots are of course consulted on Euro-control as well as on the Planning Group. They take an active part in the discussions on both of these bodies. So I think that part of the noble Baroness's question is covered; at least I hope so.
As to the figures the noble Baroness mentioned, I was not entirely clear whether the figure of 10 per cent. was 10 per cent. of 15 per cent. or 10 per cent. in all. Certainly, I will endeavour to verify the figures and the precise mileages mentioned by the noble Baroness, and perhaps I may check these and write to her.
§ Baroness Burton of CoventryMy Lords, while being grateful, perhaps we may return to the matter on another occasion. But is the Minister aware that what I said was that it was generally agreed that the excess mileage in Europe was in the order of 15 per cent. and that people knowledgeable in the industry believe that this could be reduced by 10 per cent., bringing it to 5 per cent., with the consequent saving of fuel?
§ Lord LyellMy Lords, I will bear in mind very carefully, as always, what the noble Baroness has said.
Lord Bruce of DoningtonMy Lords, in view of the noble Lord's complimentary references to the activities of Euro-control itself, will he give the House an assurance that Her Majesty's Government will seek, so far as they possibly can, in conjunction with other members of the Community, to keep Euro-control in existence and in fact to expand its activities?
§ Lord LyellMy Lords, I assure the noble Lord, and indeed your Lordships, that Euro-control in a revised and indeed improved form will continue in being after 1983.