HL Deb 14 June 1982 vol 431 cc453-6

2.45 p.m.

The Lord Privy Seal (Baroness Young) rose to move, That this House approves the following proposals with respect to expenses incurred by Lords after 30th June 1982—

(1)Expenses incurred by a Lord of Appeal who is neither a Lord of Appeal in Ordinary nor a holder of high judicial office within the meaning of the Appellate Jurisdiction Act 1876 for the purpose of attendance at judicial sittings of this House or Committees of this House or under section 9 of that Act shall no longer be recoverable under any paragraph of the Resolution of 22nd July 1980.

(2)The limits on the expenses which Lords may recover under that Resolution shall be—

  1. (a)for paragraph (I)(a) of the Resolution (day subsistence and incidental travel), £.12.10 for each day of attendance;
  2. (b)for paragraph (1)(c) (overnight subsistence), £25.40 for each day of attendance;
  3. (c)for paragraph (1)(d) (secretarial allowance), £11.00 multiplied by the number of days of attendance falling within paragraph (1)(a);
  4. (d)for paragraph (3) (office-holders' secretarial allowance), £1,300 in any year.

The noble Baroness said: My Lords, I beg to move the first of the two Motions standing in my name on the Order Paper. I am sure it will be convenient to your Lordships' House if I speak to both Motions standing in my name together. The first of these Motions gives effect to an increase in the Peers' expenses allowance and the allowance for secretarial assistance for Ministers and other office holders in this House. The Motion also provides that noble and learned Members of your Lordships' House who are retired holders of judicial office shall no longer be enabled to claim the Peers' expenses allowances for attendance at judicial sittings of this House. The second Motion seeks the approval of this House to the draft of the Ministerial and Other Salaries Order 1982. This order has been considered by the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments, which in its 24th report indicated that it had no special points to draw to your Lordships' attention.

As I said in my reply to a Question for Written Answer by my noble friend Lord Windlesham on 12th May, the Government consider that it would be appropriate to increase the Peers' expenses allowance and the secretarial allowance for Ministers and other paid office holders in this House by 4 per cent. In the absence of recommendations by the Top Salaries Review Body this year, we felt that it would be right to increase these allowances in line with the provision on Estimates. The new rates set out in the first Motion are, accordingly, as follows: for Peers who necessarily have to take overnight accommodation away from their usual residence, a limit of £25.40; for day subsistence—that is, to cover meals and incidental travel —the new limit will be f12-10; expenses to cover the costs of secretarial assistance, general office expenditure, postage and suchlike may be met within a new limit of El 1 per day. This allowance may be claimed over a period and will be payable, as before, for each day of attendance. Together these allowances would total £48.50. However, those Peers who do not have to incur expenses as a result of overnight accommodation will only be able to claim a maximum of f23.10—that is, the sum of day subsistence and the secretarial allowance. As in the past, this is a daily maximum within which Members of this House are entitled to claim those sums actually incurred as a result of attending to their parliamentary duties. Ministers and office holders, who have to deal with a considerable amount of correspondence by virtue of their position, will be entitled to claim up to £1,300 per annum towards the cost of secretarial assistance to deal with non-departmental correspondence. The proposed increases will take effect from 1st July—that is, one year since the last increases.

I should say a word about part (1) of my first Motion. Under the Resolution of this House of 22nd July, 1980, retired Lords of Appeal in Ordinary and former holders of high judicial office who attended this House for judicial sittings have been entitled to claim their travelling expenses and their subsistence. It has been decided that it would be more appropriate for any payment to retired Lords of Appeal in Ordinary and former holders of high judicial office when they sit judicially in this House to fall on the Lord Chancellor's Vote, and this has in practice been the case from the beginning of the Trinity term. This class of Lord of Appeal is therefore no longer to be entitled to claim expenses under the Resolution of 22nd July 1980, and this is the result achieved by the first paragraph of my Motion.

The draft Order in Council referred to in the second Motion provides for an increase in ministerial and other salaries, payable under the Ministerial and Other Salaries Act 1975, of 4 per cent. As with Peers' expenses, the Government felt that an increase in line with the provision in Estimates was the right one in the circumstances. Since increases in ministerial salaries cannot be retrospective, the new rates will come into payment on 23rd June—the date the order goes to the Privy Council if it is approved by your Lordships today.

The rates shown in the order for the Prime Minister and for the Lord Chancellor are the rates which may be paid to holders of these offices and which will apply for pension purposes. However, as in previous years, my right honourable friend and my noble and learned friend will continue to draw the same salary as their Cabinet colleagues.

It is our intention to ask TSRB to undertake a complete review of ministerial salaries and of allowances for Members of your Lordships' House in time for next year. Thereafter we intend that TSRB reviews should be conducted about once every four years, somewhat less frequently than hitherto. In interim years the Government will bring forward proposals for adjusting ministerial salaries and Peers' expenses in the light of the circumstances at the time. My Lords, I hope that these proposals will commend themselves to your Lordships and I beg to move.

Moved, That this House approves the following proposals with respect to expenses incurred by Lords after 30th June 1982—

(1) Expenses incurred by a Lord of Appeal who is neither a Lord of Appeal in Ordinary nor a holder of high judicial office within the meaning of the Appellate Jurisdiction Act 1876 for the purpose of attendance at judicial sittings of this House or Committees of this House or under section 9 of that Act shall no longer be recoverable under any paragraph of the Resolution of 22nd July 1980.

(2) The limits on the expenses which Lords may recover under that Resolution shall be—

  1. (a)for paragraph (1)(a) of the Resolution (day subsistence and incidental travel), £12.10 for each day of attendance;
  2. (b)for paragraph (1)(e) (overnight subsistence), £25.40 for each day of attendance;
  3. (c)for paragraph (1)(d) (secretarial allowance), £11.00 multiplied by the number of days of attendance falling within paragraph (1)(a);
  4. (d)for paragraph (3) (office-holders' secretarial allowance), £1,300 in any year.—(Baroness Young.)

Lord Peart

My Lords, on behalf of the Opposition may I thank the noble Baroness for her statement. We of course welcome the statement and know that it will help to enable the valuable work done in this House to be continued.

On Question, Motion agreed to.

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