Schools and Less Academic Children (Hansard, 26 July 1982)

§ Lord Gainford
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord Elton)
My Lords, my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Education and Science has just announced a programme of development projects in this field worth £2 million per year. In Scotland the Government, education authorities and other bodies have together developed and piloted a range of new foundation level courses.

§ Lord Gainford
My Lords, I thank my noble friend the Minister for that Answer. Can he please give any information about the programmes for late developers, for teenagers, who might be interested in the 17-plus examination?

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, the Government fully recognise the importance of the 17-plus age group. Following consultations, the Secretary of State has 2 recently published a document called Seventeen plus: A New Qualification, setting out plans for development of range of new pre-vocational courses which, from 1984, will be available in schools and colleges of further education, and will meet the needs of students who are not attracted to academic provision.

§ Baroness Jeger
My Lords, while welcoming this modest development, may I remind the Minister—

Several noble Lords
No.

§ Baroness Jeger
My Lords, may I ask the Minister whether he needs to be reminded that 40 per cent. of our children leave school without taking any examinations at all? In view of that, is it not possible that this new scheme could start before September 1983? Is it a fact that it is not to involve pupils until the fourth form? Surely they are the very pupils who would benefit more if they were given special assistance earlier. Why is the scheme, as I understand it, being limited to only seven or eight local authorities?

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, the answer to the first question of the noble Baroness is: No, I do not need reminding. In answer to her further questions, I may say that my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Education and Science announced 10 days ago a programme of development projects in seven or eight local education authority areas in England volunteering, if they will, to begin in September 1983. It will take until then to get the local authorities to volunteer and the plans for the new schemes to be approved and agreed upon. We hope that they will enable authorities to put into practice some of their own ideas for new approaches to the education of the lower-attaining pupils, especially in the last two years of compulsory education. Of course it is important that the interests of these children be looked to at every stage of their education. But the Question relates to this particular phase, and I am convinced that what is being proposed 3 is a very encouraging and imaginative means of developing new ways of seeing that our teachers and our parents do not regard academic ability as the only ability of any value in school, when so many children have other abilities which are of greater importance to them.

§ Lord Kilmany
My Lords, arising out of that reply, may I ask why, if children are not very academic, they should not be encouraged to play more games?

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, with the exception of a very few cases of talented people, that is not a profitable form of instruction for later life.

§ Lord Alexander of Potterhill
My Lords, do I gather from the Minister's reply that it has taken us nearly 40 years to understand the meaning of the 1944 Act, which provided that every child should be educated according to his age, ability and aptitude? As the aptitude changes, so should the educational provision.

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, the Government and previous Governments are deeply obliged to the contribution which the noble Lord himself has made in arriving at that understanding.

§ Lord Kilmarnock
My Lords, will the Government consider implementing the Schools Council's proposal for an intermediate or I-level to run alongside A-level?

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, I think that that is probably a separate issue, but I will consider it further in the columns of Hansard.

§ Lord Hatch of Lusby
My Lords, would the Minister agree that the children who are suffering most from the Government's cuts in grants to education authorities are those in areas where the comprehensive principle has not, as yet, been applied? Does he know, for example, that in the area where I live in Lincolnshire, where there are grammar schools and secondary modern schools, the secondary modern schools, where the need is greatest, are having to give up facilities like school bands because they are not allowed peripatetic music teachers, whereas grammar schools are able to continue with such facilities? Is this not a sad commentary on the effects of Government cuts in education?

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, I would doubt if it was, but it is not the subject of the present Question which concerns improving the position in schools for the less academic children. My right honourable friend has announced a very impressive programme for that in an experimental way. The number of areas which still have bipartite systems of education are extremely few and I should not wish to enter into debate now to cover ground which we covered with so much passion in this House many years ago.

§ Lord Hatch of Lusby
My Lords, does the noble Lord not agree that it is the less academically-inclined children who are in secondary modern schools and 4 the more academically-inclined children who are in grammar schools? That is exactly my point.

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, the noble Lord has stated a self-evident point, but it does not amount to a question.

§ Lord Leatherland
My Lords, I should like to ask the noble Lord—and I do so as a former bandsman, a euphonium player (that is where I learnt to blow my own trumpet)—whether he will do everything possible to encourage schools to run their own bands?

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, with the particular example of the noble Lord in mind, I shall, with very great enthusiasm, bring his interest to my right honourable friend's notice.