HL Deb 23 July 1982 vol 433 cc1078-9

11.15 a.m.

Lord Strabolgi

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will reject the suggestion in the Rayner Report that the Museum of Childhood in Bethnal Green should be closed.

The Earl of Avon

My Lords, the recommendation of the recent Rayner Report was that admission charges should be introduced at the Museum of Childhood in Bethnal Green with a view to covering the museum's recurrent costs and, if that were to prove impossible, that consideration should be given to closing down the museum.

When my right honourable friend the Minister for the Arts announced the publication of the Rayner Report on 27th May he said there was to be a period of consultation about the recommendations which would last until early August. Decisions will be taken when consultations are complete.

Lord Strabolgi

My Lords, while thanking the noble Earl for replying to my Question, may I ask whether he is aware that this museum houses the biggest and best toy collection in the country and that it is of worldwide importance? Is he further aware that it provides an important service in any area where there are not many cultural amenities? Finally, is he aware that this proposal has been received in Bethnal Green and elsewhere with a sense of outrage?

The Earl of Avon

My Lords, I am indeed aware of all the three points that the noble Lord makes, and I am grateful to him for stressing them today.

Lord Beaumont of Whitley

My Lords, is the noble Earl aware that the Rayner Report did not, in fact, touch on any of the matters dealing with the local population and their effect in the locality? Will the Government, therefore, not make up their minds on this particular matter until they have taken that factor into the equation, which was so unreasonably left out?

The Earl of Avon

My Lords, I undertake to make sure that my right honourable friend does indeed take local considerations into account.

Lord Renton

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that it is well worth making a pilgrimage to Bethnal Green, accompanied by one's children or, as the case may be, one's grandchildren, to visit this fascinating museum and it would be a great pity if children, especially, were made to pay any charge to enter it?

The Earl of Avon

My Lords, I take note of my noble friend's point.

Lord Jenkins of Putney

My Lords, is the noble Earl aware that there is just as much all-party opposition to the closure of the children's museum in Bethnal Green as there is to the proposal not to proceed with the Theatre Museum? Is he further aware that the idea of introducing charges would be peculiarly repugnant in this delightful museum which is devoted to children?

The Earl of Avon

My Lords, I do indeed recognise the all-party support against the proposal in this House, as I did during the debate on the Theatre Museum. I shall, of course, bring all these remarks to the attention of my right honourable friend.

Lord Donaldson of Kingsbridge

My Lords, very briefly I should like to add support from this Bench. Is the noble Earl aware that the excuse given for this recommendation is that there have to be priorities? Will the noble Earl not agree that priorities for doing something new have to be considered in an entirely different way from priorities concerning destroying something good which already exists?

The Earl of Avon

My Lords, I take the noble Lord's point. My own fascination has been to study what is actually in the museum and I entirely agree with him.

Lord Strabolgi

My Lords, is the noble Earl aware that the Government are on record as saying that they do not propose to introduce entrance charges to the Victoria and Albert main museum in South Kensington? Why should the people of the East End have to pay to go into their museum while those in Knightsbridge and the smarter parts of London go in for nothing?

The Earl of Avon

My Lords, perhaps I might refer the noble Lord, Lord Strabolgi, to the Government's position on charges. The Government do not intend to impose charges for general admission to the main collections, nor to change the well-established practice of charging for entry to some outstations. But it would be open to new trustees to make proposals on these matters.