BBC External Services: Spanish (Hansard, 20 July 1982)

§ Lord Kilmarnock
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

§ The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Belstead)
No, my Lords. We do not believe that the cost of restoring direct BBC broadcasts in Spanish to Spain, which were only one hour a day when they were ended last year, would be justified in relation to the other pressing calls on the limited resources available to finance the BBC External Services.

§ Lord Kilmarnock
My Lords, in thanking the noble Lord the Minister for that reply, may I ask him whether he read The Economist for 26th June, in which their Spanish correspondent wrote—and I quote: The Argentine Junta invaded the Spanish media far more successfully than it did the Falkland Islands"? Is the noble Lord aware that the Spanish media carried stories accusing the British of using bacteriological warfare, which we were completely unable to rebut directly in the Spanish language? Is he further aware that news appearing in the Argentine media was considered by some experienced correspondents to be more balanced than that circulated in Spain? In these circumstances, does he not agree that the Government's abolition of direct broadcasting to Spain did the country a great disservice?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, the bias in Spanish public opinion in favour of Argentina was, for many reasons, predictable. I understand why the noble Lord, Lord Kilmarnock, asks his supplementary question, but noble Lords should know that our embassy in Madrid took every practical step to ensure that the Spanish Government were aware of the true facts. So far as the people of Spain were concerned, since direct broadcasts in Spanish were discontinued at the end of 1981 the BBC has introduced a recorded service for rebroadcasting by local radio stations. During the Falkland Islands crisis the BBC supplied numerous current affairs reports on tape which were used on major Spanish networks.

§ Lord Strabolgi
My Lords, may I ask the noble Lord the Minister if it is not true that the British Embassy in Madrid has asked for these Spanish service broadcasts to be reinstated?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, I read countless telegrams from embassies all round the world and, honestly, I cannot remember whether the answer to that question is yes or no. The answer from Her Majesty's Government is this: there are priorities which have to be looked at in allocating the available money to the BBC External Services. Since the cuts were made in October last year—that is to say, the cuts in current expenditure, because in real terms more money is being spent on the BBC World Service because of the additional money being spent on increasing audibility—we have increased BBC External Services broadcasting to Poland, to Latin America, and to the Falkland Islands. That is where we believe the priorities lie at the moment.

§ Lord Wigoder
My Lords, may I ask the noble Lord the Minister what would be the cost of restoring the Spanish language service?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, we have saved £230,000 by ending it, but the rebroadcasting to which I referred in my first supplementary answer is costing some £82,000.

§ Baroness Trumpington
My Lords, may I ask my noble friend whether the tapes to which he referred will be an on-going affair, or is it just a temporary means?

§ Lord Belstead
On-going, my Lords.

§ Lord Ardwick
My Lords, in view of the fact that talks about the future of Gibraltar are likely to be resumed, is it not essential that the Spanish people should have an opportunity of listening to the British case in Spanish? Were we not particularly lucky in this case in having Gibraltar and a station there to relay our messages to those people in that part of Spain where there is the greatest and most immediate interest in the subject?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, of course this is important, and here again I give the same reply as that which I gave to the noble Lord, Lord Kilmarnock. I do not agree with the premise with which the noble Lord asks his supplementary question, but the House should be aware that a BBC survey of their former one hour a day service showed that, of a sample of 3,000 people questioned, 27 listened daily and 39 listened weekly. The BBC worked that out as being about 500,000 people listening to the one hour service each week. There are really other ways of getting across the message that we want to get across to the people of Spain on any particular issue. There are also other priorities, and I have sought to identify them in the answer I gave to the noble Lord, Lord Strabolgi.

§ Lord Strabolgi
My Lords, is the noble Lord the Minister aware that the figure he gave of a 3,000 sample is a very large sample indeed? If extrapolated, it makes around 400,000 listeners. That is just as large as the Gallup Polls on which the Government continually rely in this country.

§ Lord Belstead
No; my Lords, the BBC worked it out as being 500,000 listeners—rather a better result than the noble Lord, Lord Strabolgi, calculated.

§ Lord Annan
My Lords—

Lord Winstanley
My Lords, does the noble Lord the Minister recollect that it is about eight months since this subject was debated very seriously in your Lordships' House? In that debate, noble Lords from all parts of the House warned the Government of the very serious consequences of any cuts in the vernacular services, and in particular in the services in Spanish. Is it not ironical that so soon after that debate we should now have cause to regret those cuts and to be suffering from them? May I ask the noble Lord specifically whether he recollects writing on 1st June this year to Mr. Waller, an honourable Member of another place, to say that when the Government decided to end the services last year, this was on the basis that their audiences were limited and were not influential? Is the noble Lord aware that the audiences included the King of Spain and the Leader of the Opposition, regularly? From the figures he has given your Lordships' House, they included more people in Spain than those who listen to Radio 3 in Britain. Finally, may I ask the noble Lord—

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, we have now spent 21 minutes on Questions. Will the noble Lord, Lord Winstanley, ask just a short question?

Lord Winstanley
My Lords, does the noble Lord, Lord Belstead, not agree that if the Spanish vernacular service goes, the Spaniards would not listen to the BBC's programmes in English but will listen to the vernacular services put out by the Cubans and by the Soviet Union?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Winstanley, said that the Government must surely regret this. Of course, we would like to hear the BBC speaking to every single part of the world 24 hours a day, but this is not possible and this is recognised by the BBC themselves. One has to look at the priorities. When one considers that broadcasts to Poland have been increased by 5½ hours a week since last autumn and those to Latin America by l0½ hours a week, and that the special broadcasts to the Falkland Islands have been started, then I believe we have our priorities right. I hestitate to say that the next priority on the list will be Spain. What about Afghanistan? One has to look to see where the money is going to do the most good. So far as that is concerned, the noble Lord put to me the perfectly fair point, which contradicts a letter I wrote, suggesting that very influential people were listening to the vernacular services. I believe they probably listen also to the 24-hour-a-day World Service of the BBC.

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, may I suggest that we now take the question of the noble Lord, Lord Annan, who has been trying to get in for a long time, and that we then move on to the next Question.

§ Lord Annan
My Lords, the noble Lord said that there are many who understand and who are interested in broadcasting problems who sympathise with him in his desire to establish priorities and who think that he has those priorities right. Would he not agree that, if we have to make a choice, it is more important to keep going the services in English on the World Service, which are listened to by many people abroad, than to try to cover every single country in its own language?

§ Lord Belstead
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, who on this occasion brings his experience to say that he thinks that in what is a very difficult matter we are doing the best we can at the present time.