HL Deb 08 July 1982 vol 432 cc896-7

3.15 p.m.

Lord Hatch of Lusby

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government what is their attitude to the United Nation's embargo on oil supplies to South Africa and whether they have any evidence that this is being evaded by British companies.

Lord Belstead

My Lords, there is no mandatory United Nations oil embargo against South Africa. The question of British companies evading such an embargo therefore does not arise.

Lord Hatch of Lusby

My Lords, if the noble Lord the Minister will read my Question again he will see that the word "mandatory" does not appear in it. Is he aware that last December the United Nations General Assembly passed by 126 votes to 7 a motion for oil sanctions against South Africa? Is he further aware that the British Government themselves prevent North Sea oil being sent direct to South Africa? Has he, or his department, studied the Amsterdam-based Shipping Research Bureau Report which states that between January 1980 and June 1981 32 tankers with British managers or British charters, 21 of which were from Shell or BP, were presumed to have delivered oil to South Africa? Has the noble Lord studied these figures, and does that equate with the Answer he has given?

Lord Belstead

My Lords, it is a fact, as the noble Lord, Lord Hatch, has said, that the Government have made clear to companies exporting North Sea crude oil that they expect them to do so to the markets only of the International Energy Agency and our European Community partners. The oil companies are well aware of this and that the Government attach considerable importance to it, and I believe that these are guidelines which are working. So far as the report of the Shipping Research Bureau is concerned, certain countries have indeed imposed a unilateral oil embargo against South Africa. It is not for the British Government, however, to enforce embargoes by other countries.

Lord Tanlaw

My Lords, is it not a fact that British oil companies have to give returns to the Department of Energy as to where the stocks of oil are, and including stocks actually carried on the water? Therefore, is the noble Lord in a position to say whether any British oil companies hold stocks of oil in South Africa?

Lord Belstead

No, my Lords, I am afraid I am not.

Lord Molloy

My Lords, would the noble Minister not agree that we in this country have a specific interest in matters of these kinds that refer to South Africa'? We are the mother country of a great, multiracial Commonwealth which could not stomach the views of South Africa and she was ejected out of that Commonwealth. If we do not stand fast by its great principles, all that we shall be doing is giving succour to opponents of ours from Communist regimes who cash in on anything like this. Would the noble Lord make a statement beyond any peradventure that Great Britain, as the head of a great multiracial Commonwealth will do her utmost to see that in no way does she collaborate with the appalling racialist regime of South Africa?

Lord Belstead

My Lords, this is because we have firm guidelines about where the oil which comes from our own oilfields should go. These are the guidelines about the selling of crude oil from the North Sea, and I repeat we have no reason to believe that those guidelines are being breached.

Lord Hatch of Lusby

My Lords, the Minister, with respect, has not answered my question. Has he, or his department, studied the findings of the Shipping Research Bureau? If he has done so is it, or is it not, the case that 32 tankers, British owned or British managed, have been shown to have delivered oil over this 18-month period? Does he agree that British oil companies should carry on this trade or not?

Lord Belstead

I repeat, my Lords—in a slightly different way as the same question is being asked for the second time—that the Government expect British companies to observe the laws of other countries within whose jurisdiction those companies trade. It is not however for the British Government to enforce embargoes imposed by other countries.

Lord Hatch of Lusby

My Lords, does the Minister agree that British companies should defy a resolution of the United Nations General Assembly?

Lord Belstead

My Lords, I am delighted that we have at last come back to the original Question, the reply to which the noble Lord seemed not to listen to when I gave it. With respect to him, there is an inherent flaw in the original Question; there is no mandatory embargo by the United Nations on oil to South Africa. Therefore there is no question of evasion.

Lord Soames

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that there are a number of Commonwealth countries in Southern Africa who are supplied with both crude oil and refined products from South Africa?

Lord Belstead

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend. I understand, for instance, that Botswana, Lesotho and Swaziland are dependent on South Africa for their oil supplies.