HL Deb 07 July 1982 vol 432 cc768-70

2.40 p.m.

Lord Moyne

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether under the system of telephoned messages proposed to replace the telegraph service it will be possible to communicate in an emergency with people not on the telephone or whose telephone is out of order; whether travellers or press correspondents able to reach foreign post offices will be able to send written messages to addresses in Britain and whether it will be possible to transmit or receive money by telephone message.

Lord Glenarthur

My Lords, British Telecommunications are currently studying methods by which messages of an emergency nature can be communicated to addressees either without a telephone or whose telephone is out of order after the inland telegram service is withdrawn on 1st October 1982. No final decision has yet been reached.

After 1st October 1982, incoming international telegrams, however originated, will normally be delivered by telex, or first class post. The transmission of money by telephone message would be expensive and raises problems of security. But the Government are considering with the Post Office whether there is any acceptable way of meeting the limited continuing demand for this kind of service.

Lord Moyne

My Lords, while thanking my noble friend for his full and very helpful reply, which will facilitate public discussion of what is proposed, may I ask him to suggest to the postal authorities that they should look again at the possibility of incorporating post offices into the Telemessage system so that payment could be made over the counter instead of through call boxes, where often adequate change is not available? I should also like to ask them to re-examine the possibility of transmitting cash which he kindly says is already being looked at. Finally, will he stress the importance of accurate written confirmatory messages?

Lord Glenarthur

My Lords, to eliminate the drastic current losses on the telegram system, pruning of the use of post offices is essential. In the judgment of British Telecommunications, the service will not bear the payment of a handling charge to another organisation. At present, the payment made to the Post Office for telegram acceptance and delivery is running at about £25 million to £30 million a year.

On the second point that my noble friend raised, about the transmission of cash, the procedure at the moment is that cash can he transmitted by telegram but it needs to be picked up from the delivery post office by the person who needs it, on proof of identity. At the moment ways are being studied by British Telecom to achieve this form of transmission. But, as I say, no decision has been reached on it at the moment. So far as confirmation is concerned, the system of confirmatory copies will for the present continue.

Baroness Seear

My Lords, will the noble Lord not agree that it would have been rather a good idea to have done these studies before, and not after, the telegram service was removed?

Lord Glenarthur

My Lords, this is very much a matter for British Telecom and its commercial judgment.

Lord Davies of Leek

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that some of us are becoming more and more worried? These days fundamental decisions are made without any opportunity of discussion by Parliament. This is a fact. As a student, I often sent an SOS home that I was stranded on station X and please would they send cash urgently. This is of paramount importance to students. Seriously, something should be done so that Parliament has the chance to discuss these fundamental changes.

Lord Glenarthur

My Lords, I am quite sure that both my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Industry and British Telecom will take note of the noble Lord's views.

Baroness Burton of Coventry

My Lords, can the Minister say whether this change was discussed in advance with POUNC, because, as I understand it, POUNC is the one consumer council in which the industry concerned—in this case it is the Post Office and British Telecom—is compelled to give advance notice of a change which could fundamentally affect consumers? If the noble Lord does not know the answer to that, perhaps he could write and let me have the information.

Lord Glenarthur

My Lords, if the noble Baroness is referring to the transmission of money, the answer is that a proposal to end the money transmission service, if it is to be ended—and hopefully it will not be—has been put to the Post Office Users' National Council for comment.

Baroness Burton of Coventry

My Lords, I am sorry, but I was not referring to that. Is the noble Lord aware that I was referring to the change and I was not criticising that—in which telegrams are abolished arid the telephone service is to be used instead? I wondered whether this change had been communicated in advance to POUNC for its opinion.

Lord Glenarthur

My Lords, I am not sure about that, but I shall certainly find out and write to the noble Baroness.

Lady Saltoun

My Lords, will the noble Lord not agree that the proposed new system of telephone messages, which is to replace our present telegram system, will not really be very much more help than a first-class letter would be if a first-class letter arrived when a first-class letter should?

Lord Glenarthur

My Lords, it is perfectly true that in some cases the system will be more lengthy than has been the case with the traditional system. But, in exceptional cases of real emergency, for example, there is little doubt that some means will be achieved of actually getting the message through to the person for whom it is intended.

Lord Segal

My Lords, are we also to see the end of greetings telegrams?

Lord Glenarthur

No, my Lords, it will be possible to send a greetings tele-message.

Lord Glenamara

My Lords, will the noble Lord not agree that the £30 million handling charge being paid by British Telecom to the Post Office is a ridiculous state of affairs?—because only a very short time ago they were the same organisation and this charge did not arise. Is not it yet another example of the quite detrimental results flowing from the splitting up of the old Post Office?

Lord Glenarthur

My Lords, I agree that it is unfortunate that the system allows for those colossal costs, but at the same time it is important to bear in mind that there has been a decline in the use of the telegram system. In 1975–76 4.2 million telegrams were sent and in 1980–81 only 2.9 million, and about 30 per cent. of those were, in fact, greeting messages.