§ 2.57 p.m.
§ Lord Hatch of LusbyMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will review the operations of the Export Credits Guarantee Department in view of the current world economic situation.
§ The Secretary of State for Trade (Lord Cockfield)No, my Lords. No such review is necessary.
§ Lord Hatch of LusbyMy Lords, would the noble Lord the Minister agree that the countries, particularly those of the third world, that have been accustomed to receiving the benefits of ECGD are now in a vicious circle '? Their increased oil bills, the low price of commodities, and the protectionism of the industrial world prevent them from earning foreign currency or the money for internal investment. They are then faced with the necessity to borrow money. Would the noble Lord agree that when such countries are having to borrow money for their own purposes they have to pay very high interest rates? They are therefore unable to repay their debts. At that point ECGD cuts off its support and so the vicious circle is completed. Would he agree with that analysis? Would he recognise that this is a new economic situation in the world in which a re-examination of the operations of ECGD would be very appropriate?
§ Lord CockfieldMy Lords, I am of course well aware of the arguments put forward by the noble Lord, Lord Hatch, but I do not agree with the conclusions he draws from them. The purpose of the export credit guarantee scheme is to give insurance to our own exporters. It is not a form of aid.
§ Lord Hatch of LusbyBut, my Lords, if that is the answer of the noble Lord the Minister, then he has totally misunderstood the case I have tried to put to him over the past three years. Is he not aware that I have been trying to impress on him that this is a mutual interest between the countries benefiting from ECGD and our own country? Would he agree that this is a global issue now in which the future of this country as well as that of the third world countries is very much bound up? Does he realise what actually happens when ECGD is removed? Those countries then have to buy, usually inferior goods, from other countries with less stringent rules, thereby losing Britain the trade that they want to engage in with us. Would he look again and consult with his right honourable friends in the Government to see whether, in this desperate situation—
The Minister of State, Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Earl Ferrers)My Lords, may I interrupt the noble Lord, Lord Hatch, who will be the first to know that the point of Question Time is to elicit information from the Government and not necessarily to put a case? If he could put his supple- 775 mentary question as succinctly as possible, I think that would be appreciated.
§ Lord Hatch of LusbyI am trying to probe the mind of the Minister, my Lords, as I have been trying to do for three years. I can briefly conclude by asking if he will reconsider his Answer and consult with his noble and right honourable friends as to whether ECGD could play a greater part in the mutual interest of this country and the countries which previously enjoyed the benefits of ECGD?
§ Lord CockfieldMy Lords, the extreme brevity of my reply did not perhaps do justice to the amount of consideration I had given to the noble Lord's Question before I answered it. The very brief answer to the point he raises is that it is not in this country's interest to supply goods for which it is not paid and for which it cannot be paid.