HL Deb 28 January 1982 vol 426 cc1058-60

3.16 p.m.

Lord Bruce of Donington

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will state the results of the discussions between the Finance Ministers of the EEC on the non-life insurance services directive, and the date upon which they expect the directive to come into operation.

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, despite repeated discussions by Ministers in the Finance Council and a great deal of pressure at all levels, agreement on the insurance services directive still appears to be some way off. The intensive work under our presidency has achieved agreement on some issues, and has clarified many of the areas of disagreement. But there remain fundamental differences of view between the United Kingdom and several other member states, not all of whom share our objectives.

Lord Bruce of Donington

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his reply. Is he aware that the directive under which the freedom to provide services is set out is now nearly eight years old, and that numerous endeavours have been made by successive British Governments, including his own, to have the matter rectified? Is the noble Lord also aware that the German and French Governments are afraid of admitting British insurance firms operating in the non-life field into either Germany or France, and that they have done their very best to prevent this by filibuster in the European Parliament and by obstruction in both Council and COREPER?

Will Her Majesty's Government pursue this question with renewed energy—I know that the noble Lord and the noble Lord the Foreign Secretary have done their best—on the basis that the actions of the Governments that I have mentioned are in direct opposition to Article 60 of the Treaty and only go to show that, whenever this country seeks to take advantage of the sections of the European Treaty outside the common agricultural policy field under which it is entitled to benefit, it almost invariably meets with obstruction?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, I must say that I very much share the views of the noble Lord in this matter, including the acute disappointment that it has not been possible to make more progress on the draft directive, which, as the noble Lord rightly said, first came forward from the Commission in, I think, 1975. Articles 59 and 60 of the Treaty of Rome impart the basic right of freedom to provide services within the Community. This country has conceded willingly the right in connection with the supply of goods within the Community, sometimes at considerable disadvantage to some of our industries. It is time that our service industries were allowed to compete likewise.

Lord Sandford

My Lords, may I ask a question that is a little more specific than that asked by the noble Lord, Lord Bruce of Donington? May I ask my noble friend to confirm that the Government will do their level best to ensure that this item remains on the agenda of every single meeting of the Council of Finance Ministers until it is resolved?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, it is of course the case that the Belgians have now taken over the presidency. We understand that they intend to keep up work on the directive, although it may be too much to expect them to do so at the pace which we set during our presidency. But we are very happy that they intend to keep up some pressure, at least, on this matter.

Lord Molloy

My Lords, would the noble Lord not agree that, as my noble friend Lord Bruce of Donington has said, this item has been on the agenda for nearly a decade and the matter has now developed into blatant discrimination against British insurers? We were told that direct elections would solve all the problems, but would he not agree that that has made no difference whatsoever? This discrimination continues, and it is about time that, in the interests of British insurers, a much firmer stand and a firmer protest were under-taken by Her Majesty's Government.

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, I can assure the noble Lord that we pressed this matter with the utmost firmness during our time in the chair. Some of our member colleagues did not see eye to eye with us on it, and we very much regret that; but I can assure your Lordships that we lost no opportunity during our presidency and, indeed, will lose no opportunity in the future, to go on pressing this important matter.

Lord Davies of Leek

My Lords, would I be right in assuming that this would have an effect upon those who have to control the investment of money for industrial pensions and the movement of trade union funds into areas that would show some profitability for pensions to workers later on? This limitation has an effect on the investment of pension funds, does it not?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, so far as I know, that is not the case, I must say. The directive is related to the conduct of commercial-type insurance business in the Community; for example, large companies insuring their premises, and that sort of thing. It does not relate to the investment of funds; nor does it relate, incidentally, to consumer-type insurance, such as, for example, motor insurance or private house insurance.

Lord Davies of Leek

I thank the noble Lord.