Western Isles Islands Council (Loch Roag) Order Confirmation Bill (Hansard, 23 February 1982)

§ Lord Lyell
My Lords, I beg to move that this Bill be now read a third time.

§ Lord Ross of Marnock
My Lords, this is a very important Bill. It affects one of the most remote parts of the country and one of its most westerly parts. I think that it calls for some examination by your Lordships' House and I shall ask one or two questions. I am sure that noble Lords will be aware of the existence of Loch Roag and of its importance, because a few months ago we had another such confirmation order Bill where the Highlands and Islands Development Board sought and were given powers in respect of Breasclete. The highland authority—which is the equivalent of the district and regional council—are now seeking further powers in the same area. It is 833 very ambitious indeed when you bear in mind the size of the Bill and the powers in the Bill. It is not a simple Bill; it has two clauses and then there are 44 paragraphs in the schedule. For that part of the world, if it is ambitious we applaud it.
However, the background to this they state is that they have undertaken substantial research into marine resources of importance to the well-being of the area and have under consideration measures designed to conserve such resources and improve such facilities. We are entitled to ask exactly the nature of the research that has been done, the nature of the facilities that they seek to improve, so that we will be in the picture about it. They say that there has been a resurgence of activity in respect of the fishing industry and the work of the Highlands and Islands Development Board with the new harbour there and the fish-drying plant. So it is important that we should keep our eye on what is happening elsewhere.
They say also that the council have already proposals to improve the other marine works in Loch Roag. Could we be told exactly what these proposals are? It is not the wealthiest local council in the country. The Western Isles Islands Council is probably the one that requires maximum support under rate-support grant from the central Government. They could not be bringing this Bill forward, which gives certain powers to the Secretary of State as well, without fair knowledge that they are going to get the money. May we be given any indication regarding what monies are going to be spent under this and whether it is coming from the central Government, or is this part of the integrated development policy which has been authorised by the EEC? They have promised to the Western Isles a sum of about £l0 million for integrated development of the area outside of agriculture. If that is the case, I think that it shows laudable speed on the part of the Western Isles Islands Council in getting down to actual proposals.
There are some aspects which are worth questioning. There is the taking over of Carloway harbour and pier which was privately administered with the grant of land. et cetera, by Miss Matheson back in 1893; but the trustees that were set up obviously gave up the job in 1915 and nobody can trace any of them now. So this area is being overtaken. The House is being asked to give them powers in respect of other areas within Loch Roag where there are piers and harbours. What is the state of these piers and harbours?
It is rather touchy when a local council says they want to control them and administer them under one authority. This is not a small area; it is quite a large area altogether. Under paragraph 41 of the schedule they cannot proceed with these other harbours and facilities without getting the agreement of the proprietor. Therefore, it seems rather high-handed, to say the least, that they are taking control of the whole area where there are other harbours and piers that they themselves do not own.
They also take powers if there are any defects in any of these harbours and piers to require the owners concerned to put them into order. But what happens if the owners have not the money or if they are in the same state as the Carloway pier, where they cannot even trace trustees? We should like to know something about that.
834 They say that there are other developments such as the possibility of installations to harness wave energy. May we be told something about that? This is very important indeed in respect of the power of water that is there. Are we near a breakthrough in respect of this when the local authority say "The speed of development here may be such that we have to have powers properly to deal with it when it takes place". May we be told something about that? Is this an immediate possibility or a distant possibility? There is reference in paragraph (9) in the prelude to the schedule: Other developments, such as the possibility of installations to harness wave energy, have been envisaged, and experience has shown that in the time-scale of modern major development it is desirable to ensure that adequate powers are available to control such developments: Altogether they take licensing control in respect of all works. They appoint a harbour master, and he has tremendous powers including the behaviour of people in the harbour area, the whole area including privately owned harbours and piers that may already be there. It may be just jetties. It is a very considerable power that is being given.
Paragraph 31 of the schedule requires some kind of explanation from the Government before we pass this Bill. It says: So much of any work now or hereafter constructed or placed pursuant to this order as is not within the Western Isles Islands area shall be deemed for all purposes to be within that area". What other area could it be in in that part of the world? What is the limitation upon that? Could they do something in the Clyde? It is not in their area but shall be deemed to be within their area in respect of their work. We require some explanation of this. I can remember that when we established the Highlands and Islands Development Board we gave them power to take in other areas, and it was envisaged by one Member of Parliament at that time (who is now a Member of your Lordships' House) that we could nationalise the whole of Scotland.
On the whole, I want to applaud the Western Isles Islands Council for bringing this forward. However, we would all be very much better informed if we could have the answer to some of these questions to find out what is behind it, when is action likely to be taken and who is going to pay?

§ Lord Lyell
My Lords, the noble Lord was kind enough to warn me he might wish to say a few words on this brief and, I hoped, fairly simple Bill which is before us today. Certainly, I had noticed that there were 44 paragraphs in the schedule. The noble Lord has asked a number of very detailed questions. I shall attempt to answer some of them. I hope that he and your Lordships' House will bear with me when I say that I do not think that I can give him the detailed answers to everything that he asked today. I shall attempt to answer as much as I can. May I inquire as to the precise details and indeed the legal explanation of what he pointed out to your Lordships, in paragraph 31 of the schedule as to what were works deemed to be within the Western Isles Islands area?
That point crossed my mind and I understood that it was dealing with such works of a harbour or tidal nature which would abut partly within the area and 835 partly without it. If I may, I will obtain a precise legal definition of what is deemed to be within and without the area and I will let him know in due course.
The order will give the Western Isles Islands Council powers, but merely powers as a harbour authority, over the whole area of Loch Roag, which covers Loch Roag, Little Loch Roag, West Loch Roag and East Loch Roag. Together these form an inlet. As the noble Lord, Lord Ross, said, this is in one of the most remote areas and it is indeed on the north-west coast of the Island of Lewis, about 15 miles west of Stornoway. I have been given a small sketch map which unfortunately I cannot show to your Lordships, but the noble Lord, Lord Ross, will know what the area looks like. The overall dimensions of the area over which the harbour board authority powers would apply are in the region of 8 by 10 miles. The numerous inlets and the islands mean that the area of water involved here is about 30 square miles. That is a fairly large area, as the noble Lord, Lord Ross, pointed out, but not unreasonably large.
There are two existing harbours, one of which is Carloway Harbour, and your Lordships will see that mentioned in paragraph 30(1) of the schedule. At present this is nominally under the control of a harbour trust but no trustees have been elected for many years, as the noble Lord pointed out. I have the relevant private legislation dated 1892, but will not weary your Lordships by delving too deeply into that particular order.
There are two brief paragraphs in the schedule which cover various provisions regarding the trustees, their election, and so on. The noble Lord, Lord Ross, will also be interested to know that there are indications of the rewards the trustees were to receive: for instance, they would receive meat on certain days during the year. The noble Lord mentioned "Miss Matheson": it was actually Dame Matheson, whose family were then proprietors of a large part of the Island of Lewis. The noble Lord is absolutely right in saying that the trust is in desuetude and trustees have not been elected for many years.
For that reason, among others, it seems reasonable that overall control of this harbour should be vested in the Western Isles Islands Council. The council already have harbour authority powers over other marine works which are classified as harbours or boat slips which are principally used or acquired for fishing, for agricultural industries or indeed for the maintenance of communications in that part of Scotland in the whole of the Loch Roag area. This includes the little hamlets, if one can call them so, of Kirkibost, Miavaig, Valtos, Callanish and Bernera. The Bernera area also includes the boat slip.
The noble Lord, Lord Ross, asked about the facilities in Breasclete. The House will be aware that in 1978 the Highlands and Islands Development Board completed landing facilities and a service site at Breasclete on Loch Roag as part of a much wider programme to attract fish processing ventures to onshore sites in the Western Isles and to develop fisheries industries generally in the Hebrides. That was the overall objective of these facilities at Breasclete.
I would not want to say anything further about activities of a research nature which are done there, 836 or indeed about the fish processing today. I would rather concentrate on the aspect of Breasclete connected with the harbour and the overall control of the pier and the facilities as a harbour by the council. The approval which had been given to the Highlands and Islands Development Board to proceed with the whole of the development at Breasclete was subject to the condition that the board would promote a provisional order to take power to operate and regulate the use of the pier at Breasclete. Your Lordships may be aware that the Breasclete Harbour Order Confirmation Bill received Royal Assent on 1st August 1980. We understand it has already been agreed between the Highlands and Islands Development Board and the Western Isles Islands Council that the harbour authority powers, such as they are, concerning Breasclete will be transferred to the council at an appropriate time during the 1980s; so that is in the reasonably near future.
There is a saving in Clause 41 of the order, as was pointed out by the noble Lord, Lord Ross. The council will be able to exercise the functions of a harbour authority, when the transfer from the Highlands and Islands Development Board takes place, over the existing harbour undertakings within the overall area which are not already under its control. The other provisions in the order which relate to the regulation of the harbour area and the normal charges which a harbour authority would levy for what may be called normal harbour activities and which are relevant to the west coast of Lewis are unexceptional. These are precedented in previous legislation, particularly in the Harbours Act 1964, or indeed they are comparable with other orders which we have moved in relation to the Western Isles and to other areas within the council's area.
The noble Lord, Lord Ross, mentioned, I think, paragraph 9 in the schedule—

§ Lord Ross of Marnock
My Lords, Clause 9 of the Preamble.

§ Lord Lyell
My Lords, I am indebted to the noble Lord. I have no information as to wave energy or indeed the time-scale of such a modern development in other forms of energy generation. I will endeavour to obtain some precise information and pass it on to the noble Lord, Lord Ross, as swiftly as possible. I hope I have answered most of the queries of the noble Lord, Lord Ross. I can assure him that we are very grateful for his interest in this part of Lewis. We shall examine his comments very closely and I will write to him, as I promised earlier, with answers that have not given today.