HL Deb 11 February 1982 vol 427 cc261-2
Baroness Burton of Coventry

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether, in view of the experiment in the sale and availability of discounted air tickets being carried out by some 2,000 IATA/ABTA approved agents on certain British Airways routes to the Far East, they are prepared to recognise such procedure as a legal transaction in all current travel arrangements.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Trefgarne)

My Lords, the present arrangements for the sale of certain British Airways tickets at reduced fares are legal because these fares have been approved by the Civil Aviation Authority. Any extension of the experiment would require further approval.

Baroness Burton of Coventry

My Lords, is the Minister aware that when one asks a direct question, one always gets an evasion? The Question refers to what the Minister said last week, that he doubted whether there would be any difficulties with similar applications being granted. May I ask him whether his answer means, Yes or No? Might I further move on from that to ask him this, because I believe it is a serious point: does he appreciate that IATA, ABTA, and British Airways, have done a great deal of work to make these tickets more available to the general public legally, over the counter, rather than illegally, underneath the counter? Does he furthermore appreciate that all these organisations would like a forthright mention of approval from the Government, which they feel are always dragging their feet in this connection?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, I remember that when I was first appointed to be a member of this Administration, somebody said to me that I would have to learn to say nothing in a thousand different ways. I fancy that I have exhausted most of them now on the noble Baroness. On the specific question put by the noble Baroness, it is for British Airways to make an application to extend the scope of the experiment and the CAA will certainly be happy to consider applications when they come forward. It is worth recalling that the particular application which gave rise to the present experiment was agreed in 24 hours.

Baroness Burton of Coventry

My Lords, is the Minister aware that he is facing completely the wrong way? I have asked him a straightforward question. I am not referring only to British Airways. I am asking the noble Lord whether similar applications to that made by British Airways and agreed on New Year's Eve, and agreed by the CAA and the Government, will be approved for other airlines if the airlines carry out the conditions and apply in the correct way.

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, it depends whether the applications come from other British airlines or from other foreign airlines. Other British airlines must apply to the Civil Aviation Authority, whereas foreign airlines must apply through the governmental machinery. My reply to any application of that nature will be the same as it was last time.

Baroness Burton of Coventry

My Lords, the House is patient and I do not know whether I am being stupid or whether the noble Lord is, but I really cannot understand what he is saying. I am asking the noble Lord whether if, say, a British airline made application to the Civil Aviation Authority to fly on cheap tickets, as has been done in this particular case, and if the application has fulfilled the conditions which British Airways have fulfilled, it also would be granted?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, the noble Baroness is asking me to predict the outcome of applications to the Civil Aviation Authority. I regret that I cannot do that.

Lord Shinwell

My Lords, why not make the noble Baroness, Lady Burton of Coventry, a member of the Government and save all this trouble?

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