HL Deb 09 February 1982 vol 427 cc92-4

2.46 p.m.

Lord Brockway

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government what has been their response to the mission of scientists sent by the Pope to warn them of the risk of destroying humanity in a nuclear war.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Trefgarne)

My Lords, Her Majesty's Government welcomed the Pope's message and his initiative in addressing Heads of State and Governments on the subject of nuclear weapons. The prevention of war, whether nuclear or conventional, remains the overriding priority of Britain's and NATO's defence and arms control policy.

Lord Brockway

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his reply. May I ask him whether, in view of the fact that this mission is being sent to the four great powers, including the Soviet Union, and represents the conclusions of the Pontifical Academy of Science—which is very important—the Government will give attention to the recommendations it has made for the ending of nuclear weapons, which it regards as no longer possible if mankind is to survive?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, nobody doubts the horrors which would follow from a nuclear exchange. That is why our policy seeks to prevent that.

Lord Jenkins of Putney

My Lords, is the Minister aware that, though the assurances here given by the Government are no doubt well intentioned, the arms themselves, and nuclear arms in particular, continue to pile up on all sides while this goes on? Will the Government take no step to break the chain which appears to bind them to American decisions? Are the Government incapable of any initiative on this matter?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, if the noble Lord is suggesting that we in this country should disarm unilaterally, I have to tell him that that would make war more, not less, likely.

Baroness Llewelyn-Davies of Hastoe

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that, while in no way excusing the actions of the Soviet Government in many places, there is very, very grave anxiety about some of the utterances of the American administration? Since we do not expect him to have a direct influence on the Soviet Government, would Her Majesty's Government be good enough to make representations to the American administration about those anxieties?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, it is the case that, for example, the United States recently put forward the proposal for the zero option which is being pressed now in the INF talks, as they are called, in Geneva. The British Government wholly support that initiative.

Lord Strathcona and Mount Royal

My Lords, will the noble Lord tell the House whether this same mission of scientists has been received by the Russian Government and, if so, what the latter's response was?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, I am not aware that the mission has yet been received by the Soviet Government. I have no information on that point, but I have no doubt that they will be.

Lord Brockway

My Lords, while the Minister is continually giving us assurances of the support of the Government for multilateral disarmament, of which I am in favour, how can he reconcile that with the policies of his representative at Geneva, who is opposing proposals for multilateral disarmament in nuclear weapons?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, the proposals that come forward from time to time have to be examined in the context of whether they are balanced and verifiable. When such proposals come forward, we shall hasten to support them. When they are not of that kind, then we shall not.

The Lord Bishop of Norwich

My Lords, has the noble Lord been encouraged by the fact that His Holiness the Pope has not stated his support for unilateral disarmament and that the Leader of our Established Church, His Grace the Archbishop of Canterbury, has also not given his support to unilateral disarmament, whereas the leaders of the Church—and all the Churches, so far as one can tell—have been seeking very hard to call upon the faithful of all Churches to pray and work energetically for verifiable and mutual multilateral disarmament? Is not this of some encouragement to the Government, who, as I understand it, are also working energetically and determinedly for verifiable, mutual, multilateral disarmament?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, His Holiness the Pope and the right reverend Primate the Archbishop are, of course, very sensible people, and that is why they adopt the views they do.

Lord Brockway

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that the proposals at Geneva which the representative of this Government has opposed include verification and inspection?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, I am not aware to which particular proposals the noble Lord is referring, but they doubtless fail to meet some other essential criteria.

Lord Davies of Leek

We need not worry, my Lords; you cannot be deader than dead.