HL Deb 01 February 1982 vol 426 cc1184-6

6.53 p.m.

Lord Sandys rose to move, That the scheme laid before the House on 18th December 1981 be approved.

The noble Lord said: My Lords, the purpose of this instrument is to extend for a further period of three years a scheme of Exchequer grants towards the cost of constructing and improving fishing vessels. The scheme provides fishermen with a grant of 25 per cent. of the approved cost of projects. Substantially similar arrangements have been in force for a number of years, and it might be of convenience to the House if I briefly draw attention to the changes which are proposed for the future.

First, past schemes have been administered by the White Fish Authority and the Herring Industry Board. These statutory bodies were replaced last year, under the provisions of the Fisheries Act 1981, by a single new authority, the Sea Fish Industry Authority; and this new authority will administer the scheme in the future as the Government's agent.

Secondly, the new scheme will apply to Northern Ireland as well as to Great Britain. Until now Northern Ireland fishermen have been covered by a separate scheme. The new single scheme should bring some small benefits in respect of savings of administrative effort, and fishermen in all parts of the country will be eligible for grant aid on the same terms.

Thirdly, the so-called "control periods" for the grant are reduced. For some years after payment of the grant beneficiaries must observe certain conditions. One such condition is that the vessel must remain in the United Kingdom fishing fleet. If the conditions are not observed, all or part of the grant becomes repayable. The control period is essential to ensure that Government funds are properly used. However, if the control period is unnecessarily long, it can inhibit the process of adapting the fleet to future needs, and that would be undesirable. With this in mind the Government have decided that the control period for new vessels should be reduced from 10 years to five years and for improvements to vessels from five years to three years. The shorter periods will apply both for vessels already grant aided and for the future. I understand that the fishing industry has already welcomed this change.

The scheme will provide funds to assist the fishing industry to improve and adapt our fleet to the needs of the future. In providing grants from Exchequer funds the scheme also provides the national grant element which is needed to enable our fishermen to be eligible for additional grants from the European Community. In 1981 our industry obtained approval for grants from the Community amounting to £2.3 million. My Lords, I beg to move.

Moved, That the scheme laid before the House on 18th December 1981 be approved.—(Lord Sandys.)

6.56 p.m.

Lord Peart

My Lords, I congratulate the noble Lord on his succinct way of introducing this subject. I believe that he has touched upon every important point, and I am glad that this instrument is to go through both Houses without opposition. I have been looking at what has happened in another place, where there has been a very good debate on fish, and I should like to know when we are to have a similar debate in this House. After all, fishing is one of our great industries. I am not going to repeat what the noble Lord has said. I have noted his main points, which are important, and I shall try to extend the debate a little further. As a former fisheries Minister, I know that our fishing industry has had its troubles, but we must look to it as a great industry that not only provides food for our people, but in times of crisis plays a major part, with many of its men in the Royal Navy and other subsidiary organisations.

We are dealing here with a major industry, and I think of ports such as Hull and Grimsby. I think, too, of the fishing industry in Scotland, which is also very important. I understand that the scheme will apply to Northern Ireland as well as to Great Britain. Until now Northern Ireland fishermen have been covered by a separate scheme. The new single scheme should bring some small benefit in respect of savings of administrative effort, and fishermen in all parts of the country will be eligible for grant aid on the same terms.

I should like to deal quickly with the argument about "control periods" relating to the grant. I think that the proposal here is right, and I hope that it will be regarded as sensible. For some years after payment of the grant beneficiaries must observe certain conditions. One such condition is that the vessel must remain in the United Kingdom fishing fleet, and I hope that that will prove to be so. There has been criticism about selling trawlers to other people—New Zealand has been involved in this. While sometimes we should export in this field, we must remember that our fleet needs to be built up. I believe that the proposals are broadly acceptable—I congratulate the Government—and I hope that they will provide the improvement that we want.

Added to that we must also consider our role in the Community. On the other hand, I believe that many of our troubles regarding fish involve other matters which it would be improper for me to deal with this evening. I believe that this scheme will provide funds to assist the fishing industry to improve and adapt our fleet to the needs of the future. In providing grants from Exchequer funds, the scheme also provides the national grant element which is needed to enable our fishermen to be eligible for additional grants from the European Community. I understand that in 1981 our industry obtained approval for grants from the Community of £2.3 million.

I believe that this instrument is to extend for a further period of three years a scheme of Exchequer grants towards the cost of constructing and improving fishing vessels. The scheme provides fishermen with a grant of 25 per cent. of the approved cost of projects. Substantially similar arrangements have been in force for a number of years, and it may be of convenience to the House if we look at the changes which are proposed in the future. First, past schemes have been administered by the White Fish Authority and the Herring Industry Board. These statutory bodies were replaced last year (I remember taking part in the debate and welcoming the approach of the Government) under the provisions of the Fisheries Act 1981 by a single new authority, the Sea Fish Industry Authority. This new authority will administer the scheme in the future as the Government's agent.

So I welcome this instrument. I know that this is only a short debate—it would be wrong to expand too much—but I hope that on some other occasion we shall be able to discuss in greater depth the fishing industry, which is so important. So, even though we are allowing this statutory instrument to go through its processes, I believe that at some stage the Government must afford time for a major debate on the fishing industry.

Lord Sandys

My Lords, I am very glad to have the support and welcome given to this order by the noble Lord, Lord Peart, in the terms he used and in the way in which he said that he believes that this order which the Government are now putting forward will be of benefit to our fishing industry. It is true to say that the arrangements proposed in this order follow as a direct consequence from the legislation a year ago. I shall certainly pass on to my right honourable friend the remarks made by the noble Lord, Lord Peart, who was, of course, a former Minister of Agriculture, with a considerable experience of the sea fishing industry during his period of office and, no doubt, before that.

So far as concerns his particular reference to the possibliity of a debate in your Lordships' House on the fishing industry, I shall pass this suggestion on through the usual channels, but I expect that the noble Lord will take his own course of action, either by himself putting down a Motion for debate or by making some other provision for it—and I know your Lordships' House will welcome a debate on a subject which has not been considered for some little time. To conclude my remarks on this order, my Lords, I warmly welcome what the noble Lord has said and commend the order to your Lordships.

On Question, Motion agreed to.