§ Lord GainfordMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what recent discussions they have had on defence matters with the French Government.
Viscount LongMy Lords, the Secretary of State for Defence met his French colleague on 1st April 1982, and my honourable friend the Minister of State for Defence Procurement met his French opposite number on 8th February 1982. Defence matters are also discussed during routine official contacts between our two Governments.
§ Lord GainfordMy Lords, I thank my noble friend for his Answer. Would he agree that the policies of the French Socialist Government, which include an increase in their nuclear deterrents, contrast considerably with the policy of a reduction in or abolition of ours advocated by some in this country who could do a lot worse than take a lesson from President Mitterrand?
Viscount LongMy Lords, I apologise to my noble friend, but I think that that is a matter of opinion.
§ Lord BishopstonMy Lords, does the noble Viscount not think that it is more important to try to understand the points of view of our NATO partners and that he might deplore some of the political points which are made on occasion, which do not really enhance the important cause of European security and of world peace? Can the noble Viscount say when further meetings are likely to take place between the Government and the French?
Viscount LongMy Lords, these meetings take place slowly but surely. At this moment I do not have a timing for the next meeting, but it is important that they take place.
§ Lord MayhewMy Lords, has it emerged in these meetings that Her Majesty's Government agree with the French Government on the crucial question of the Geneva negotiations; namely, that an agreement that fell short of the zero option might still be well worthwhile?
Viscount LongYes, my Lords, I think it is more than worthwhile; and I think that these talks and the Geneva meetings are indeed very important to all sides.
§ Lord Jenkins of PutneyMy Lords, would the noble Viscount agree that if the French were proved to be mistaken on this occasion it would not be the first time they had been wrong?
§ Lord KennetMy Lords, are the Government aware that we on these Benches think that now that France and Germany have a fully-fledged and formalised arrangement for bilateral talks, including defence, it is extremely appropriate that the Government should have bilateral contacts with France, such as he has described? Can the noble Viscount say anything to the House about the possibility or desirability of the two Governments discussing together the dovetailing in time of their nuclear submarine patrols, so that patrols go to sea under a joint Anglo-French plan rather than without any pre-arrangement?
Viscount LongMy Lords, on the latter part of Lord Kennet's remarks, I think that that is going far off my brief and I have not got the information. I could possibly let him know at another time. I should be grateful if I could do that.
§ Lord BrockwayMy Lords, in view of the Government's support of multilateral disarmament, will they discuss with the French Government their attitude towards the commission in Geneva, instructed by the United Nations second special conference on disarmament to produce a comprehensive programme for peace?
Viscount LongMy Lords, these talks for peace are always going on in one way and another, but one thing that we cannot do is to tell the French exactly what to do with their nuclear defence system, and it is therefore not for Her Majesty's Government to say so.