§ Baroness Burton of CoventryMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government how many of the 18 airline operating permits for scheduled passenger and/or cargo services into the United Kingdom not at present containing a clause requiring adherence to published tariffs, will come up for amendment or renewal within the next six months and whether the clause referred to will then be inserted for scheduled passenger services if renewal is granted.
§ Lord LyellMy Lords, only one of the 18 outstanding permits is a temporary operating permit coming up for renewal in the next six months. A clause requiring adherence to published tariffs will be included on renewal.
§ Baroness Burton of CoventryMy Lords, do I understand from that reply that 17 other permits will not be coming up for renewal and that these 17 permits do not include the clause referred to?
§ Lord LyellMy Lords, the other 17 permits are open-ended operating permits. They would not come up for renewal in the normal course of events unless the pattern of operations allowed by them needed, for some reason, to be amended. Nonetheless, it is the intention of the Department of Trade to replace these permits by new ones, including the relevant tariff clause, within the next year.
§ Baroness Burton of CoventryMy Lords, I thank the Minister for that little more encouraging reply. Does he recall that at our last exchanges on 26th October, at column 392, the House was told that it was primarily a matter for the airlines themselves whether or not this clause was adhered to? Is he aware that since then I have seen representatives of several of the airlines concerned who maintain that this is complete nonsense and that it would be perfectly possible for the Department of Trade to check adherence to these licences? Will the Minister ask the Secretary of State for Trade to have a further look at the matter?
§ Lord LyellMy Lords, I am most interested to hear of the meeting which the noble Baroness has had, but I am not altogether surprised. Indeed, that may be the opinion of the representatives of the airlines to whom the noble Baroness spoke, and I shall certainly convey her opinion and thoughts to my noble friend.
§ Lord MonsonMy Lords, would the noble Lord not agree that all attempts artificially to fix prices above the market level are bound to fail in the long run, in that we cannot buck the law of supply and demand except in the very short term? Would he not further agree that air travellers who patronise bucket shops, as all sensible air travellers do, are actually doing the airlines a favour in as much as they are paying money for tickets which the airlines are quite unable to sell at the full published rates?
§ Lord LyellMy Lords, the noble Lord indeed makes one or two valid points and, as one who yesterday filled in a cheque for a fantastically low price for your Lordship's sking trip to Zurich, I would agree in some part with what the noble Lord said. However, I would reiterate to the noble Lord, and indeed to your Lordships, that we have to look to the industry to deal with this point and it is an essentially commercial matter. Above all, we support the efforts made in IATA and in the Board of Airline Representatives in the United Kingdom towards the elimination of illegal discounting.
§ Baroness Burton of CoventryMy Lords, I should like to ask the Minister to clear up one point which I am sorry I forgot to raise earlier. As to the new clause which will be inserted into the permits when they are applied for, will the airlines have to file in their application for a permit a list of the scheduled fares which they themselves then guarantee to keep?
§ Lord LyellMy Lords, so far as I am aware, the airlines would not have to file anything in the permit; they would only file details of the alterations in the existing permit, which may or may not have anything to do with fares. But certainly I shall ascertain the details of the exact clause and write to the noble Baroness.