§ The Earl of Cork and OrreryMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government how many of the 2,250 sightings of UFOs reported to the Ministry of Defence in the years 1978–81 were, and still are, classified for reasons of security.
§ The Earl of Cork and OrreryMy Lords, I thank my noble kinsman for that Answer. May I ask him two questions: First, what did he mean when he said in his Answer on, I think, 4th March, that reports of sightings that were considered to be of interest to defence were in fact classified? Secondly, what procedures may be open to individuals or organisations who would like to see the reports?
Viscount LongMy Lords, with regard to the latter part of my noble friend's supplementary question, there is no reason why he should not come and see the reports. Not many of them come in because not many people actually report sightings. There is no cover up in that respect. As for the first part of my noble friend's supplementary question, I stick to what I said earlier.
§ The Earl of KimberleyMy Lords, can my noble friend say why, when I previously asked a supplementary question, he said that the figures had got lost on the way to the Ministry, whereas today he says that they are there and available for anyone to see? Can he therefore place them in the Library for all of us to see?
Viscount LongMy Lords, I will look into that and find out whether it is possible for your Lordships to see them. I should like all of your Lordships to see them in the Library, if possible.
§ Lord StrabolgiMy Lords, may I ask the Government whether they think that any of these UFOs are manned spacecraft coming from a planet outside the solar system, as is believed by the "ufologists"?
§ Lord ShinwellMy Lords, do I understand that the noble Viscount the Minister in his reply to the original Question does not deny that UFOs exist? Is it possible—I use the word "possible" very carefully, but 218 deliberately—that all the information is well-known to the Ministry of Defence, but that for diplomatic and other reasons it is not prepared to make an announcement?
Viscount LongNo. my Lords, it is not prepared to make an announcement because it has not got the facts to make an announcement with authority behind it.
§ Lord BeswickMy Lords, the Question asks about 2,250 sightings. The noble Viscount says that there are very few sightings reported to the Ministry of Defence. Does that mean to say that the figure in the Question is incorrect?
Viscount LongNo, my Lords, it was on the original assumption that there are probably many sightings that are not reported to the Ministry of Defence. That is what I was really referring to. Therefore, at this stage what we have said is what we have got.
§ Lord BeswickMy Lords, I should like to clear up that point. The Question refers to 2,250 sightings "reported" to the Ministry of Defence. The Question I asked was, "Is that figure correct, or not?"
Viscount LongNone, my Lords, Reports come into the Ministry of Defence, and anyone can take them from there.
Viscount St. DavidsMy Lords, has anybody yet found an empty beer can marked, "Made in Centaurus", or any similar object? Until they have, will the Ministry deal with these matters with very considerable scepticism, please?
Lord MorrisMy Lords, if something is said to be unidentified, how can it possibly be said to exist?
§ Lord LeatherlandMy Lords, can the Minister tell us whether any of the unidentified flying objects are Ministers who are fleeing from the Cabinet just now?
§ The Earl of ClancartyMy Lords, may I ask the noble Viscount whether he is aware of a Ministry of Defence document concerning UFOs, which was published in the July 1978 issue of a journal called Viewpoint Aquarius? Furthermore, is he aware that under the heading of "Contacts" there were listed 18 names, and alongside each name there was given the town which was the location of the supposed occurrence? There were also given classifications and a date and time relating to each name. Is the noble Viscount aware that there was a 219 tremendous distribution of the document to other Government departments, and to NORAD and the CIA? I should like to ask whether in this case the word "contacts" means close encounters?
Viscount LongYes, my Lords, I have the document here, and it has nothing to do with the Ministry of Defence. It is made up to look rather like a Christmas menu. Its existence in the Mnistry of Defence has been denied on television. Someone else has made it up. It is not a Ministry of Defence document—not the way it is made up, like a Christmas menu.