§ 3.4 p.m.
§ Lord Jenkins of PutneyMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government which works of art are to be selected for location in the arts bunker at Blaenau Festiniog in the event of nuclear war; whether this bunker is currently in course of restoration and maintenance for the purpose; and whether provision is being made to house there any living artists or Arts Council officials.
§ The Earl of AvonMy Lords, it would not be in the public interest to disclose details of security arrangements, whether for use in war or in peace. Security arrangements involve transport, safe keeping, storage, guarding and many other matters which, if disclosed, would prejudice the safety and security of the items for which the arrangements are made.
§ Lord Jenkins of PutneyMy Lords, would not the noble Earl agree that it is really quite scandalous that arrangements were made during the recent civil defence exercises for the evacuation of works of art whereas no such arrangements have been made for the civilian population? Despite the great reverence that we all have for our art treasures does not our own population deserve a higher priority than that?
§ The Earl of AvonMy Lords, I should like to comment on the first part of that supplementary question. I said before that it is not in the public interest to disclose details of security arrangements. Successive Governments have decided against an official programme of purpose-built shelters because of the enormous cost set against the slight risk of war. The Home Office published this year booklets giving guidance to the general public on domestic shelters suitable for protection in a nuclear war and detailed design outlines of certain types of shelter.
§ Lord BrockwayMy Lords, may I ask the Minister whether this Question does not concern something almost as serious as human lives? Great works of 311 art, great works of literature—where are they to be protected under nuclear attack when it is now recognised that a nuclear attack would destroy even the deepest shelters?
§ The Earl of AvonMy Lords, I must leave the noble Lord to use his own imagination on it. As I said before, in the public interest we will not disclose details of security arrangements.
Lord Paget of NorthamptonBut, my Lords, since it is public knowledge that, very properly, certain works of art will be removed in case of war, how in the world is security affected by saying which works of art they are to be? The argument for the preference list would be fascinating and the greatest fun.
§ The Earl of AvonMy Lords, I think the noble Lord has answered himself. It would be an impossible subject to go into at Question Time in this House and I do not wish to be drawn into it.
§ Lord RobbinsMy Lords, will the Minister not admit that in point of fact in various biographies photographs have been exhibited of arrangements which were made in the last war?
§ The Earl of AvonMy Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for his intervention—yes.
§ Lord Jenkins of PutneyBut, my Lords, would not the noble Earl agree that in the Government's own pamphlet on this matter Sweden and Switzerland have been held out as examples of efficient civil defence, and is not the reason why they are so efficient that they are spending on civil defence money that our Government are wasting on nuclear missiles?
§ The Earl of AvonMy Lords, I am not prepared to be drawn into that argument by the noble Lord. No, I do not agree.