HL Deb 20 May 1981 vol 420 cc950-1

2.43 p.m.

Lord Segal

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will ascertain from the University of London what progress has been made in the merger of Westminster Medical School with the medical school of Charing Cross Hospital, and what annual saving is likely to result.

Lord Cullen of Ashbourne

My Lords, I understand that discussions are taking place within the University of London and its medical schools about the implementation of the various parts of the plans for the re-organisation of medical education, which were agreed by the University Senate and Court in recent weeks. The proposals are expected to result in savings to the university of some £3.3 million overall, but information about the breakdown of this sum is not available to me.

Lord Segal

My Lords, may I thank the noble Lord for his reply? Is he aware that any savings gained by the merger of these two medical schools will have to take into account the cost of accommodating an extra intake of at least 100 new medical students every academic year and that therefore the net savings which are likely to result are rather less than the £3 million originally estimated? Would this amount really justify the closure of an important and highly efficient medical school?

Lord Cullen of Ashbourne

My Lords, I do not want to be unhelpful, but I think that the noble Lord should be asking this question of the university itself, not the Government.

Lord Annan

My Lords, is the Minister aware that discussions of a very friendly kind have been opened between the Westminster Medical School and the Charing Cross Hospital Medical School under the independent chairmanship of Sir Frank Hartley, a former Vice-chancellor of the University of London? Is the noble Lord also aware that the savings which it is estimated will be made by the merger of these two schools, provided that the reductions in staff and the savings in administrative costs are as set out and envisaged in the report which has been accepted by the university, will amount to some £1¼ million? Is the noble Lord further aware that the university's policy is that these savings in staff should not fall solely on one school but should be spread across the faculty of medicine within the university?

Lord Cullen of Ashbourne

My Lords, I was not aware of the detailed information which the noble Lord has given to the House. I am grateful to him, and I am sure other noble Lords are also grateful.

Baroness Masham of Ilton

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that the cost of training a medical student at the Westminster Hospital is £19,000 and that at the Charing Cross Hospital it is £25,700? How does the noble Lord think that there could be any saving? As Westminster medical students have for the last 10 years come top of all medical students in London, does not the noble Lord think that there will be a downgrading rather than any saving?

Lord Cullen of Ashbourne

My Lords, I was aware of the figures which the noble Baroness has quoted. I am afraid that I am in no position to say whether her suspicions will be proved to be right or wrong.

Lord Segal

My Lords, does the noble Lord realise that the air of uncertainty which is hanging over the future of the Westminster Medical School is not contributing in any way to the wellbeing either of the hospital's patients or of its staff.

Lord Cullen of Ashbourne

My Lords, I share the noble Lord's sympathy for the anxiety over this matter which is being experienced in many quarters.