Nigeria: State Visit by the President (Hansard, 31 March 1981)

§ Lord Brockway
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Trade (Lord Trefgarne)
My Lords, we warmly welcomed President Shagari on his State Visit. My right honourable friend the Prime Minister had extremely valuable and constructive discussions with him covering African problems, especially Namibia, as well as other international and bilateral subjects. Both Governments welcomed the excellent state of bilateral relations and expressed determination to strengthen them further.

§ Lord Brockway
My Lords, does the Minister not agree that a very wide range of subjects was discussed? May I raise two separate questions with him?—one, the fees for the students and, secondly, Southern Africa. On fees for students may I ask this: while welcoming the decision to freeze charges for students who are at present here, did not President Shagari point out the danger in the long run, when, despite their preference for this country, many students will go to America, where the charges are half what they are here? Also, can the Minister say whether he thinks it right that there should be lower charges for students from comparatively rich Europe and higher charges for poorer Commonwealth countries?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, the question of the fees payable by students coming from Europe is of course related to our membership of the European Community, but, as to the question of students' fees payable by Nigerian students, of course we appreciate the Nigerian Government's very real concern over this matter. The issue was indeed fully discussed with President Shagari during his recent visit. On several occasions, and again during this recent visit, we have expressed our deep regret at the necessity to charge the full fees. We greatly value the contribution of Nigerian students to the British educational system. We have explained that the effects of the increase are being closely monitored and I should perhaps point out that some postgraduate grants for exceptional students are of course available from the Department of Education and the Committee of Vice-Chancellors.

§ Lord Gladwyn
My Lords, is there any prospect of the Government's modifying their wretched policy in respect of students coming from poorer countries?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, if I may say so, that is slightly wide of the Question on the Order Paper, but in the general way our policy in connection with student fees, as with the rest of our economic policies, has to be related to our economic resources.

§ Baroness Jeger
My Lords, may not the comparatively successful outcome of these talks have something to do with the fact that the President of Nigeria was once an overseas student himself in this country and does that not indicate that the calculations should not be entirely financial?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, of course we welcome the fact that over many years students from Nigeria, including a number of very distinguished ones, have attended our schools and universities, which no doubt is one of the reasons why our present relationship with them is so strong. We hope and believe that that relationship will continue, but it is not likely to continue very effectively if our own economy in Britain remains in disarray.

§ The Earl of Lauderdale
My Lords, can my noble friend say whether the discussions led to any progress being made as regards the difficulties of British companies which have manufactured goods for export to Nigeria and are still awaiting payment?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, I am not aware that that is a significant problem. A good many of our exports to Nigeria, as elsewhere, are of course covered by the ECGD arrangement.

§ Lord Avebury
My Lords, did the President comment on the Government's failure to pronounce a single word of discouragement to sportsmen who play and coach in South Africa, thus encouraging apartheid, and did he mention in particular our obligation under the Gleneagles Agreement to discourage by every means possible such sportsmen from indirectly giving aid and comfort to apartheid?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, our opposition to apartheid is of course well-known. We do not always agree with some of our African friends on precisely the best way to counter it but the noble Lord may be sure that the Nigerians are well aware of our views, as we are of theirs.

§ The Earl of Lauderdale
My Lords, would my noble friend be willing to look at particular cases? He said just now that these matters were not in significant proportions. Would he be prepared to look at cases where exporters have manufactured goods for Nigeria and not received payment?

§ Lord Trefgarne
Yes, my Lords, I would readily undertake to look at any case my noble friend draws to my attention.

§ Lord Hatch of Lusby
My Lords, could the noble Lord the Minister expand on what he said about the present Government's opposition to apartheid? Is it the case that President Shagari said publicly that he hoped that Britain would stop supporting and strengthening the 114 South African economy? Do the present British Government agree with this policy or disagree? Do the present British Government believe in strengthening and supporting the South African economy under apartheid, or do they disagree?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, I think that goes rather wide of the Question on the Order Paper; but I think the noble Lord is aware of this Government's view on apartheid, as indeed are the Nigerian Government.

§ Lord Goronwy-Roberts
My Lords, in view of the importance of Nigeria and its immense potential, especially in Africa, both diplomatically and commercially, would the Minister assure the House that the closest possible consultation will be maintained between us and Nigeria in the future, especially in regard to the future of Namibia, so vital to the future of the West and Western industry, and in regard to the expediting of the end of apartheid in Southern Africa?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, of course, the question of Namibia is slightly different from the question of South Africa, although they are often discussed in the same context. In fact, our views vis-à-vis the Nigerians over Namibia are not very far apart. So far as South Africa goes, our views on apartheid are well known, as of course are those of the Nigerians.

§ Lord Hatch of Lusby
My Lords, surely, on consideration, the noble Lord would withdraw his suggestion that my question was outside the bounds of the Question of my noble friend Lord Brockway. I was referring specifically to a statement made by President Shagari during his visit to this country. Could the noble Lord answer that question?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, as I indicated in the first Answer, the visit was a great success. On the question of sanctions against South Africa, which is, I imagine, what is at the back of the noble Lord's mind in pressing his supplementary, it is, of course, the fact that we have not taken up a position on sanctions against South Africa at this moment; but we have consistently made it clear that we believe that sanctions would cause grave damage to the prospects of a resumption of negotiation on Namibia, for example, and indeed to the process of peaceful change in Southern Africa. Furthermore, it would create considerable economic problems for other African countries.

§ Lord Barnby
My Lords, would the Minister not agree that at a moment when there appears to be considerable discussion as to the relative merits of trading with Nigeria as against South Africa, the fact is that in 1979 the total trade with Nigeria was considerably less than that with the Republic of South Africa? It was only last year that the total trade with Nigeria was £1,200 million as against £1,000 million with the Republic of South Africa. But the economies of both are equally important, and probably the prospect of trade with the South African Republic is more encouraging to exporters because they get better paid.

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, I would not want to compare the future prospects of Nigeria with South 115 Africa; but on the question of whether or not the trade would have any relevance to our position vis-à-vis apartheid, I am wondering whether a total trade embargo on Southern Africa would in fact have the effect that the noble Lord, Lord Hatch, thinks it would have.

Lord Paget of Northampton
My Lords, so far as welcoming overseas students is concerned, do we make any distinction whether their origin is Nigerian or South African? But again, with regard to their future when they return home, has the noble Lord any figures as to how many returned students have been hanged by the succession of Nigerian Governments and as to whether any have been hanged on their return to South Africa?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, I am not quite sure of the relevance of that question. The noble Lord may be assisted if I say that there are about 5,000 Nigerian students in this country at the present time.

§ Lord Brockway
My Lords, other noble Lords have raised the question of Southern Africa. May I ask the Minister a question about the discussions on Namibia? Is it not the case that the President urged reactivity by the Western group of five nations instead of waiting for a decision by the United States, because delay enables South Africa to increase its illegal military domination of Namibia?

§ Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, it is indeed the case that Namibia was discussed with the President during his recent visit. As is well known, both our Governments are very disappointed at the breakdown of the Geneva talks. My right honourable friend the Prime Minister expressed our determination to continue to work with our partners of the five and with our friends in Africa for a peaceful and negotiated settlement. We hope that all concerned will look for a positive way forward.