HL Deb 30 March 1981 vol 419 cc3-6

2.42 p.m.

Baroness Elliot of Harwood

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government how many empty houses owned by local authorities (in England, Wales and Scotland) have remained vacant for more than 12 months and what is the estimated cost to ratepayers arising from those local authority dwellings (in England, Wales and Scotland) which have remained empty for more than 12 months.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of the Environment (Lord Bellwin)

My Lords, estimates on returns indicate that 23,000 dwellings had been vacant for more than 12 months. For Scotland and Wales this information is not collected centrally. Information on the estimated cost to ratepayers arising from vacant dwellings is not available, but the Chief Inspector of Audit in his report for 1979–80 estimated that rent losses for that year arising from all empty dwellings in England were in the order of £35 million.

Baroness Elliot of Harwood

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord very much for his Answer. I hope the Government will encourage as much as possible the habitation of these empty houses, if there is a housing shortage, though this does not operate in all areas. In fact, in the area in which I live there is a housing surplus. I hope very much that the Government will do their very best to see either that these houses are sold or that they are let as rapidly as possible.

Lord Bellwin

My Lords, perhaps my noble friend would like to see a booklet which my department has just produced, entitled Reducing the number of empty dwellings. There is a copy in the Library. I should be glad to send a copy to my noble friend.

Lord Avebury

My Lords, would the noble Lord send a copy of that document to the Property Services Agency so that they can take steps to eliminate the large number of vacant dwellings which were formerly occupied by military personnel, in particular the 400 dwellings at Tidworth which were the subject of a Question last week?

Lord Bellwin

My Lords, the publication refers to empty dwellings in the ownership of local authorities. Should there be any aspect which applies to the dwellings to which the noble Lord refers, then of course we shall look at it.

Baroness Birk

My Lords, is it not true that many of the empty houses to which the noble Baroness has referred would have been made fit for occupation if local authorities had not been subjected to the moratorium, in addition to the sharp cuts in the housing investment programme? Secondly, in view of the acute housing shortage, will the Government now treat finance to enable local authorities to repair vacant property and bring it into use as a priority allocation? Before he tells me that there were a number of empty houses under the last Government, which unfortunately was the case, may I also ask the Minister whether he is aware that the last Government issued a circular, 1977, on the better use of vacant property?

Lord Bellwin

My Lords, I am glad that the noble Baroness requires no reminding of the situation which pertained under the previous Administration. In answer to her question, perhaps it should also be said that if certain authorities had not so enthusiastically embarked upon municipalisation, the problems that they have of dealing with great numbers of empty dwellings would not be so great as they are. The application of the resources of an authority to housing as, indeed, to any other service is for the authority itself to decide. I would only remind the noble Baroness, though I am sure she needs no reminding, that those authorities which will be selling council houses will have an additional source of income which they can then apply to this or any other aspect of their housing.

Baroness Birk

My Lords, may I further ask the Minister how he thinks this is going to help housing in the short term, which is what we are also talking about? Are the Government going to raise the moratorium? In view of the lengthening housing waiting lists, will they allocate additional finance?

Lord Bellwin

My Lords, so far as the moratorium is concerned, that is a quite separate question from the one as to what can be done to help authorities to bring their empty dwellings into repair. I say again that the authorities which have the worst of these problems are those which embarked upon so much municipalisation. Their problems have not suddenly come about because of any moratorium or anything else.

Lord Barnby

My Lords, would not the Minister agree that the figure which he has just quoted, regrettable as it is, of empty houses indicates how relatively little the current recession has as yet bitten into the economy by comparison with the official figure for 1931 of over 300,000 empty houses in the country?

Lord Bellwin

My Lords, I am not sure how far that figure which my noble friend has mentioned was divided between private and public housing. Therefore, I cannot help him by drawing any useful comparison. But I note what he says.

Baroness Faithfull

My Lords, may I ask the Minister whether it is known how much money is being spent by local authorities under the Homeless Persons Act upon placing homeless families in hotels and boarding houses instead of in empty properties?

Lord Bellwin

My Lords, I am not aware of that figure. I will gladly ascertain it and write to my noble friend.

The Earl of Lauderdale

My Lords, could my noble friend supplement what he said regarding the number of empty houses in Scotland by making a statement and putting it in the Library? He mentioned that his figures did not cover Scotland. Could he place a statement either in the Official Report or in the Library stating, authority by authority, how many empty houses exist?

Lord Bellwin

My Lords, as I think I said previously, this information is currently not collected centrally for Scotland and Wales. I shall have to ascertain exactly what would be involved in obtaining that information. If it is practicable, I will see what can be done to help my noble friend.

Lord Strathclyde

My Lords, would the noble Lord also tell us how many houses are in the programmes of local authorities? I can remember that at one time a Conservative Government had 300,000 houses, 40,000 of them in Scotland. Could the noble Lord find out whether they are building anything like that number today?

Lord Bellwin

My Lords, this is so far away from the first Question that I shall have to ask my noble friend to allow me to discuss it with him privately.

Lord Hawke

My Lords, could my noble friend say whether his figure includes only those houses which are habitable at present or whether it also includes those very many houses which could be made habitable if money were spent upon them?

Lord Bellwin

My Lords, these are the figures which come in from the housing investment programme returns. Without a detailed analysis, which I do not have before me, it is very difficult to answer exactly. But I think that the figure of 23,000 is sufficiently large to cause real concern. That is why we have produced the booklet, which I hope all those interested will find both constructive and helpful in considering this particular problem.

Lord Hawke

My Lords, undoubtedly the figure of 23,000 causes concern, but to me it is an incredibly low figure if it includes those houses which could be put into operation if some money were spent upon them.

Lord Bellwin

My Lords, I would only say that it is a figure which varies so much from authority to authority. In some authorities it is as low as .01 per cent. of their housing stock, while in other authorities it is as high as 9.7 per cent. of their housing stock. That indicates the wide variation which the problem presents.