§ 3.22 p.m.
§ Lord WhaddonMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will cause investigations to be made to discover why 34 prisoners were transferred from dispersal prisons to special secure cells in local prisons during 1980 for more than 28 days, who was responsible, and what action is proposed to ensure that it does not happen again.
§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord Belstead)My Lords, a small number of cells in local prisons are made available to the governor of each dispersal prison for the transfer of serious troublemakers for up to 28 days. This provides a brief cooling-off period for prisoners whose actual or likely disruptive behaviour threatens to cause difficulties and for whom segregation in the dispersal prison is inappropriate. In most cases a prisoner returns to the original prison within 28 days. In some cases, however, it is decided that the prisoners should be transferred permanently elsewhere, usually to another dispersal prison. Wherever possible, this is done within 28 days, but sometimes the prisoner is held for a further limited period in the local prison because of the difficulties which arise in finding a new place.
The authority for holding these prisoners in local prisons for longer than 28 days is given either by the prison department headquarters or the regional director, according to the security category of the prisoner concerned.
§ Lord WhaddonMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether or not these special secure cells are equivalent to solitary confinement? Is it not most regrettable that prisoners should be held for long periods not only in those conditions but also losing a good many privileges, such as open visits from visitors? Is it not a fact that in 1974, 14 days were supposed to be the limit? Later this was increased to 28 days. Will the Government look most urgently into the possibility 1282 of reducing the periods during which prisoners are exposed to these conditions?
§ Lord BelsteadMy Lords, this is not equivalent to solitary confinement. While in a local prison, men from dispersal prisons will be treated in the same way as any other prisoner of the same security category held under Rule 43 in that prison. In particular, they will do the same work and receive the same pay on the same basis as their fellows, and they will receive the same privileges as any other Rule 43 prisoner who is segregated in the interests of good order and discipline.
The noble Lord asked me whether something could be done to reduce the length of time when such prisoners are transferred. I am afraid that I do not have the details of what the situation was in 1974. It is not always possible to avoid some delay in transfer, but I assure the noble Lord that every effort is made to ensure that this is kept to a minimum.
§ Lord LeatherlandMy Lords, the Minister said that certain prisoners are given this treatment because of their actual or likely behaviour. How does he estimate what their likely behaviour is likely to be?
§ Lord BelsteadMy Lords, I think that when you are dealing with prisoners who are in security category A or security category B it is the duty of the governor of the establishment to take a practical forward look at what the situation is going to be in his particular establishment. You have to look at what the effect of the behaviour of a prisoner in a particular situation may be upon the establishment as a whole.
§ Lord LeatherlandMy Lords, how do you know what his behaviour may be until he behaves in that manner?
§ Lord BelsteadMy Lords, you do it by discharging your duty as a governor in the prison service.