HL Deb 23 March 1981 vol 418 cc957-8
The Earl of Kinnoull

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the first Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government what is the real annual increase in salary being offered in the current Civil Service pay negotiations; how comparable are the annual holiday and sick leave allowances to civil servants with those granted to persons of equivalent seniority in industry; and what is the anticipated inflation-proof pension of a civil servant who currently earns £7,000 a year and who is due to retire in 20 years' time.

The Minister of State, Treasury (Lord Cockfield)

My Lords, the increase in salary being offered in the current Civil Service pay negotiations is 7 per cent. The annual holidays of non-industrial civil servants are broadly comparable with those given by good employers of similar staff in outside industry and commerce. Where there are differences, these are taken into account in Civil Service pay levels. On the question of sick leave allowances, there are no comprehensive data on outside practice in a form which can readily be set against Civil Service arrangements. It is not possible to estimate what will be the pension of a civil servant who is due to retire in 20 years' time. It will depend on the level of his salary in the year 2000.

The Earl of Kinnoull

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that full reply. Having regard to the benefits under the conditions of contract of the Civil Service, will my noble friend agree that the Government current offer is fair and reasonable? The present industrial action, notably at Gatwick airport at the weekend, is irresponsible and deplorable, and does nothing to add to the case or stature of the Civil Service. Finally, the index-linked pension scheme, which I believe has no parallel in industry, has a very real measurable benefit when evaluating the Civil Service contract.

Lord Cockfield

My Lords, I agree with what my noble friend says about pay and conditions in the Civil Service. In looking at these matters it is only right to bear in mind that in the last two years pay in the Civil Service has increased by approximately 50 per cent. Against that background the present offer of 7 per cent. is in fact a very fair one. So far as the second part of my noble friend's supplementary question is concerned, I think that we all deplore inconvenience inflicted on the public, and we hope that it will soon be brought to an end. With regard to the third part of the supplementary question, the inflation-proof pension is of course a very valuable addition to Civil Service remuneration.

Lord Leatherland

My Lords, while the Government are considering improving the pay and allowances of that particular group of public servants, can the noble Lord think of another very dedicated group of public servants to whom an increase would also be welcome?

Lord Cockfield

My Lords, I think all I can say is that I will certainly consider the remarks made by the noble Lord. I believe that what he has said is not unassociated with a Question that was asked recently in your Lordships' House, to which a reply was given by my noble friend the Leader of the House.

Lord Hale

My Lords, can the noble Lord say what the Government mean, or what he means, by a "good" employer? Is it not a fact that the present Government have constantly been appealing to employers not to give wage increases or any increase in benefits to employees, in order to save the nation?

Lord Cockfield

My Lords, I certainly would not agree with the implications contained in the noble Lord's supplementary question. All employers, whether in the public sector or the private sector, need to pay full regard to their ability to pay in the present difficult circumstances, and it is only right that the Government should draw attention to that fact and should pay regard to it in negotiations with their own employees.

Lord Peart

My Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether his strictures apply to the industrial civil servants, who in reality form a large part of the Civil Service?

Lord Cockfield

My Lords, I was totally unaware that I had made any strictures in regard to anybody. In fact, I took very great care not to do so, and I hope that the noble Lord will join me in taking that approach to this difficult problem. So far as the present pay negotiations are concerned, they relate of course to the non-industrial Civil Service.

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