HL Deb 17 March 1981 vol 418 cc653-5

2.44 p.m.

Lord Lee of Newton

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government what progress has been made in cleaning and restoring the exterior of the Palace of Westminster.

The Earl of Avon

My Lords, we have removed potentially dangerous coping stones and string courses and brushed off all the spalling stone surfaces. Work to make the stonework sound above doorways and to replace stone copings will be completed this year. My right honourable friend the Secretary of State for the Environment hopes to make a statement shortly about further repair and cleaning of the stonework.

Lord Lee of Newton

My Lords, I thank the noble Earl for that reply, which I am sure is as disappointing to him as it is to me. Would he agree that according to the Fourth Report of the Select Committee in the House of Commons we are now confining our activities to making sure that loose stones do not fall on people's heads? Will he agree that this noble building, which millions of people from all over the world come to see, is now getting into an utterly dangerous state? Why is it, when, since the cleaning took place, we see the beauties of the Abbey in a way we have not seen them for many years, that we have to make this place look like a black beetle in comparison?

The Earl of Avon

My Lords, while appreciating the value of this building, about which we all wholeheartedly agree with the noble Lord, I must resist his later statement as being altogether too provocative. If he will await the statement of my right honourable friend I hope he will find something to his liking.

Baroness Llewelyn-Davies of Hastoe

My Lords, is the noble Earl aware that if the further statement of his right honourable friend is not more satisfactory than his own Answer, he will still have the description of a black beetle thrown at him? Does not the noble Earl agree that the beautiful, clean Abbey shows up this building, of which we are all so proud and about which even this Government ought not to be stingy?

The Earl of Avon

My Lords, may I remind the House that it was in 1973 that the first report was made, and so far we have been unable to find the monies to do it. Therefore it is not altogether this Government's responsibility. I am glad that the noble Baroness reminded me of a black beetle. Having just been through the Wildlife and Countryside Bill, I am sure the black beetle needs to be preserved.

Lord Mowbray and Stourton

My Lords, we have seen the admirable result of what has happened on the Lord Chancellor's wing, which has received the admiration of people everywhere, and is there not a danger in waiting for the Secretary of State's announcement and for something big to take place at some time in the future? Is not a little going on all the time better than something big one day in the future?

The Earl of Avon

My Lords, as I am sure my noble friend is aware, a little is going on all the time. The point of my right honourable friend's statement will be the major action to go on in the next year or so.

Lord Simon of Glaisdale

My Lords, is the noble Earl aware that occupants on the upper floors of the West Front can feel the whole fabric shaking when heavy lorries go by? Would not some further measure of traffic control be advantageous?

The Earl of Avon

My Lords, I take note of the noble and learned Lord's remark. I am not sure that traffic control would help in this case, but I will certainly make sure that his remarks are noted.

Lord Lee of Newton

My Lords, would the noble Earl agree that whereas the first report of the House of Commons Committee showed an expenditure of some £3 million, we have now trebled that, and if we wait much longer the cost will be quite prohibitive and the building beyond repair?

The Earl of Avon

My Lords, as I think the noble Lord is well aware, a major stone-cleaning and repair programme would cost more than £5 million, but at the moment there are other strong competing claims on limited funds, notably for the repairs to your Lordships' ceilings.