§ Lord AveburyMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will look into allegations that police officers used threats against a person of overseas origin, settled in the United Kingdom, to persuade him to inform on other persons suspected of being illegal entrants; and whether they are satisfied that the Metropolitan Police are having due regard to the Home Office letter of 12th December 1980, reference POL/80 1087/20/32, in which it is stated that "the enforcement of the immigration laws is among the most delicate of the tasks which the police have to perform, and the Home Secretary appreciates that chief officers are anxious to see that it is performed with tact".
§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord Belstead)My Lords, I am not aware of the case referred to. It would not in any case be appropriate for the Government to investigate such allegations against the police. It is open to any person to make a complaint to the chief officer of the police force concerned, who will arrange for it to be investigated in accordance with the statutory procedures. My right honourable friend the Home Secretary is confident that the Commissioner of Police of the Metropolis is conscious, in this as in other areas, of the need to strike the right balance between enforcement of the law and the maintenance of good race relations.
§ Lord AveburyMy Lords, how can the Secretary of State appreciate that chief officers are anxious to see that their task is performed with tact if he does not make any inquiries whatsoever about allegations of a very serious nature which have been submitted to him? Is he aware that in this case Mr. Seyim Hayon, the particular individual about whom this Question is asked, was twice held in a police station for quite lengthy periods although he was not suspected of any offence, and that tape recordings of the conversations which he had with the officers who questioned him on those occasions show that they were inviting him to assist them by informing on other persons who were alleged to be either illegal entrants or overstayers; and does the Minister consider that this is in accordance with the advice given by the Secretary of State to chief officers?
§ Lord BelsteadMy Lords, I do not understand the beginning of the noble Lord's supplementary question. My right honourable friend carried out a review in consultation with the Commissioner of Police of the Metropolis and the Association of Chief Police Officers into procedures for instituting searches in the case of those who are in breach of the immigration laws, and as a result the circular letter to which the noble Lord referred was sent out. So far as the second part of the noble Lord's supplementary question is concerned, there is a statutory procedure for investigating complaints against the police, and I hope that the noble Lord will encourage anyone with a complaint against the police to use that procedure.
§ Lord AveburyMy Lords, while acknowledging that it is correct that people should use the complaints procedure—in fact, the individual concerned has done so—may I ask the Minister whether he does not think that the Secretary of State, for his part, has some responsibility to see that the guidelines which he has laid down are being followed? If evidence is submitted to the Secretary of State showing that police officers are trying to use persons who are settled here lawfully to spy on and bring into the net alleged illegal entrants and overstayers, does the noble Lord not think that that is in conflict with the guidelines which the Secretary of State has laid down?
§ Lord BelsteadMy Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, and I really are not talking from the same base. Parliament has imposed on the police and on the immigration service the duty of enforcing the immigration laws, and the circular—which, after all, contains valuable guidelines—says that the Secretary of State is confident that chief officers will continue to enforce the law without fear or favour, but that, equally, the police will take the need for care in this very sensitive area fully into account. Now if those guidelines are going wrong, if in any way they are being flouted, that is a case for a complaint against the police; and I ask the noble Lord a second time to see that the statutory procedures for this, set down in the 1976 Act, are followed.
§ Lord BrockwayMy Lords, without associating myself with any charge against the police as a whole, the Minister has referred to investigation within the police force. Would there not be much more acceptance of such an investigation if it were by an authority independent of the police?
§ Lord BelsteadMy Lords, there is, of course, an independent element in the complaints procedure—the Director of Public Prosecutions where a complaint suggests a criminal offence and the Police Complaints Board where a complaint suggests a disciplinary offence. None the less, the line of thought which the noble Lord has suggested was mentioned in the triennial report of the Police Complaints Board, and this is the subject of a review by a working party at the present time.
§ Lord SomersMy Lords, would the noble Lord not agree that the police have a very difficult job to do and that they do it superbly well?
§ Lord BelsteadMy Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord. It is difficult to find the right balance in this particular, very sensitive area of operations, and I think the police go a very long way towards achieving success.
§ Lord AveburyMy Lords, the Paddington Law Centre wrote to me and I answered the letter saying that I had advised this gentleman to lay a complaint against the police and that he has done so. But would not the Minister, for his part, concede that many cases of complaint against police officers fail because the matters concerning which the complaint is made are peculiarly within the knowledge of the complainant and the police officers themselves, and that there are no external witnesses? If the noble Lord is satisfied that a large number of complaints are being made, that people lawfully settled in the United Kingdom are being invited to act as spies and informers, does he not think that a matter for the consideration of the Secretary of State?
§ Lord BelsteadMy Lords, the noble Lord made a series of assertions in that supplementary question, and I disagree with all of them.