§ 11.11 a.m.
Baroness VickersMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what progress they are making with their new training initiative to provide improved educational and training facilities for both young and adult workers.
The Minister of State, Department of Employment (The Earl of Gowrie)My Lords, the Government were glad to be associated with the consultative document A New Training Initiative which was published on 21st May by the Manpower Services Commission. The document invites all those concerned with training to forward to the commission by 30th September comments and indications of actions they have taken in furtherance of the document's objectives. The response so far has been generally favourable.
Baroness VickersMy Lords, while thanking my noble friend for that helpful reply, may I ask if he can give any indication of the numbers of people who are likely to take an interest, their age range, and the types of jobs that might be available?
The Earl of GowrieMy Lords, what the Government are trying to move towards is a situation here such as that which obtains in Germany, where far fewer young people are seeking employment because far more are going on into some form of vocational education.
§ Lord RochesterMy Lords, on a related matter, may I ask the noble Earl to say when the Government will be in a position to respond to the Manpower Services Commission's request, referred to by the Prime Minister in another place yesterday, that provision should be made for more places under the Youth Opportunities Scheme? Can he hold out any hope of more being done for the increasing number of young peope who have been unemployed for more than 12 months?
The Earl of GowrieMy Lords, to answer the first part of the noble Lord's supplementary, my previous answer indicated a fair degree of hopefulness. As I said, we are concentrating on the school-leaver—the 16 and 17 year-old—on the principle that far too many people in this economy seek real paid employment in that age group in relation to our competitors.
§ Lord Orr-EwingMy Lords, can my noble friend say whether consultations have taken place with the relevant trade unions, and whether the maximum cooperation is being achieved in that area?
The Earl of GowrieMy Lords, there are some disadvantages to decentralised bodies such as the Manpower Services Commission, but one of the advantages is that they are tripartite bodies, as it were, and the consultative document which we have welcomed is of course backed by the trade unions, and I am very glad that that is so.
§ Lord KilmarnockMy Lords, does not the noble Earl agree that the principle of the return to voluntarism, which is enshrined in the Employment and Training Bill, due for Second Reading in your Lordships' House early next week, is likely to make it more difficult to implement the new training initiative? Will the initiative not need some statutory framework?
The Earl of GowrieMy Lords, as the noble Lord, Lord Kilmarnock, will no doubt be aware, I shall be moving the Second Reading of this very Bill on Tuesday of next week, and so perhaps this point had better wait until then.
§ Lord Taylor of GryfeMy Lords, would the noble Earl care to comment on the fact that people taking advantage of the Youth Opportunities Scheme are paid only marginally more than they would receive in unemployment benefit? Does not the noble Earl agree that, since additional costs are incurred in the Youth Opportunities Scheme, to that extent there is a disincentive towards taking advantage of the scheme?
The Earl of GowrieMy Lords, the "marginally more" referred to by the noble Lord, Lord Taylor of Gryfe, is in fact £8.25, and it seems to me that when you are 16 or 17 that is quite a lot of money.