HL Deb 22 June 1981 vol 421 cc847-8
The Duke of Atholl

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government to what extent the Renton Committee's Recommendations (61) to (67) about the use of computers in the preparation and use of legislation have now been implemented.

The Lord President of the Council (Lord Soames)

My Lords, developments in the area covered by the recommendations are considered by the Sub-Committee on Computer Technology of the Statute Law Committee. Many break new ground and progress has had to be gradual as resources permitted. Her Majesty's Stationery Office will have completed Statutes in Force by September using computer assisted methods. Magnetic tapes created as a by-product can be readily incorporated into a data base of statute law. The Stationery Office is also moving towards using computer assisted techniques for Hansard and then for legislation.

The Duke of Atholl

My Lords, while thanking my noble friend for that Answer, I should like to ask him one further question, that is, whether the sub-committee of the Statute Law Committee has taken into account the fact that computer techniques have advanced very considerably in the last six years, since the Renton Committee reported, and that the whole of the operations described, particularly in Recommendation (61) of the Renton Committee, would probably now be considerably cheaper than they were in 1975.

Lord Soames

Yes, my Lords, hopefully this may well be so. We are making progress. As I say, the Statutes in Force, I think, are being computerised, and magnetic tapes being there will of itself be of considerable help. Hopefully it is not going to be all that expensive, not as expensive today as it would have been some years back. I am anxious to get on with it both for Hansard and for legislation.

Lord Nugent of Guildford

My Lords, when my noble friend is considering adopting these attractive advanced computer techniques, does he also consider the increased vulnerability to industrial action that they import? Does he consider what safeguards, if any, he can introduce to protect himself?

Lord Soames

My Lords, in this particular case the pressure comes from outside rather more than from within Government. Where Statutes in Force is concerned, of course this could always be done by hand, if need be. It is more readily available when it is on computers, but it could, as is done today when legislation is being prepared, be done by hand by going through old statutes. I do not think this is an area which is highly vulnerable to industrial action and disruption, as other areas which are computerised are.

Lord Renton

My Lords, while acknowledging in particular the last supplementary answer which my noble friend has given, may I ask him whether he is aware that parliamentary counsel, above all, have a great deal to gain from the use of Statutes in Force? Is he aware that the information he has given about their completion this autumn is indeed welcome?

Lord Soames

My Lords, I am glad. I know this is a matter which my noble friend has very close to his heart. Indeed, we are most grateful to him for all the work that he and his committee did nearly 10 years ago. I hope he gains satisfaction from the fact that it is beginning to come to fruition.

The Earl of Halsbury

My Lords, is the noble Lord the Leader of the House entirely satisfied with his reply to the noble Lord, Lord Nugent of Guildford? Granted that manual fallback is possible in this day and age, after so many years of computerisation the hands for manual fallback will no longer be there.

Lord Soames

My Lords, I do not think this is a reason for not proceeding and computerising where great benefits are to be derived therefrom. I hope that the solution to this problem will be found in less industrial disruption taking place. But I do not think one should say that because there is a danger of industrial disruption—which I do not think in this particular case is all that great—therefore we should not proceed with modern methods. I do not think that would be a very wise approach.

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