The Madrid Conference (Hansard, 31 July 1981)

§ Lord Brockway
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, the Madrid meeting has recessed until 27th October. It will then aim to reach agreement on a substantial and balanced final document by mid-December. Although language has been provisionally registered in the areas of human contacts, culture, education and economic co-operation, agreement has still to be reached on human rights and military security questions which remain under negotiation.

§ Lord Brockway
My Lords, while thanking the Minister for that Answer, may I ask whether the representative of Her Majesty's Government at Madrid at the resumed meetings will support the proposal of the non-aligned nations—it being a compromise proposal between the Soviet demand for extending monitoring of manoeuvres across the Atlantic to America and Canada—the compromise proposal that 885 it should apply only in the East Atlantic, from the Urals to the East Atlantic? Would he agree that that suggestion by the non-aligned nations should be supported?

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, during the period when the conference is in recess, there will of course be considerable consultations, and that is certainly one of the points that will be consulted upon.

§ Lord Renton
My Lords, has there so far been any indication at this conference, or in the discussions which accompany it, that the Soviet Union are showing any improvement in their attitude towards those with whom they disagree whom they imprison or send to asylums merely because they are trying to establish human rights in accordance with the Helsinki Agreement or endeavouring to monitor progress under that agreement?

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, as the House will know, the Government strongly believe that any individual or organisation has the right to monitor their, or other, Government's compliance with the provisions of the Final Act. We have pressed, and shall continue to press, at Madrid and elsewhere for an end to the deplorable practice to which my noble friend referred, and, in answer to him, I should say that strong pressure is still required.

§ Lord Avebury
My Lords, in addition to the need to achieve agreement for allowing freedom of expression on these matters, may I ask the noble Lord to look at another connected issue, which is the continued refusal of the Soviet authorities to permit the free movement out of the country of people who want to join their families abroad, as exemplified by the case of Igor Korschnoy, the son of Grand Master Victor Korschnoy, who for years has been prevented from joining his father in Switzerland, and Anatoli Shcharansky, the well-known computer expert, who has been detained and prevented from joining his wife in Israel?

§ Lord Skelmersdale
Yes, my Lords, we shall most certainly continue to look at that matter and keep up the pressure.

§ Lord Jenkins of Putney
My Lords, while concentration on the human rights aspects of these discussions is important, may I ask the Minister whether he agrees that the peace aspects are equally important? Will the Government, in giving due consideration to the matters raised by his noble friend, not ignore the primary consideration raised by my noble friend Lord Brockway?

§ Lord Skelmersdale
Yes, my Lords, I certainly agree that the military aspect is the key to these entire negotiations.

§ Lord Elwyn-Jones
My Lords, would it be possible to get some publicity for what is going on at this endless conference, which I am sure we must keep going? The public and the rest of us really do not know what issues are emerging and what is being debated. The energy of my noble friend Lord Brockway lifts the curtain of ignorance from time to time, but cannot something be done to publicise what the issues are? They are obviously crucial issues and 886 there is a serious lack of communication and information here so that the public may know what is going on at this vitally important international discussion of matters of grave significance.

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, while these discussions are going on, to a certain extent they remain confidential until an agreement has been reached. However, I am able to tell the noble and learned Lord what has been achieved. One of our major objectives was to conduct a frank and thorough exchange of views on the way in which participating states had implemented the provisions of the Helsinki Final Act in the period since the Belgrade Review meeting. That review took place in the six-week period before the Christmas 1980 Recess and enabled the British as well as Western, neutral and non-aligned delegations to draw attention to serious violations of Final Act provisions relating to human rights as well as the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. Since then, in the course of negotiations on a final document, provisional agreement has been registered in the areas of human contacts, family reunification and information and economic exchanges. Those texts represent an advance on commitments to the Helsinki Final Act, and I hope that information is of help to the noble and learned Lord.

§ Lord Brockway
My Lords, is the Minister aware that those of us who are raising this matter are as concerned about human rights in the Soviet Union and communist countries as any member of this House? Is he aware that some of the dissidents in Czechoslovakia have been my friends for nearly 50 years? May I ask him to pay especial attention to this: is not the necessity to include the East Atlantic in any agreement indicated by the fact that in September there are to be concurrent naval manoeuvres between the United States, eight NATO countries and three of the worst dictatorships in Latin America? Does not that show some need to include the East Atlantic in any monitoring, and is it not very dangerous for the whole military situation in Europe?

§ Lord Skelmersdale
My Lords, as always, I have listened to, and learned from, the noble Lord, Lord Brockway, and most certainly I shall take his point under review, as I do indeed all his points.