§ 11.15 a.m.
§ Lord BrockwayMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the second Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what progress has been made in the discussions between representatives of the Government of Cyprus and the 476 Turkish occupation authorities in the north for a settlement of their dispute; and what part the United Kingdom is taking as a guarantor of Cypriot territorial integrity and independence.
§ Lord SkelmersdaleMy Lords, talks under United Nations auspices have resumed following the Greek and Turkish Cypriot elections. Progress before the elections was limited; prospects now seem brighter, but progress will require real determination from the parties. We shall continue to give our full support to the United Nations' efforts.
§ Lord BrockwayMy Lords, may I ask the Minister whether he is aware that President Kyprianou is making the utmost effort to reach agreement; that he has just recently said that he is always inspired by goodwill and he will exhaust all margins in the dialogue? Is the noble Lord nevertheless aware that the position has been made more difficult by the recent statement by Mr. Denktash insisting on borders between the two areas and an exchange of the populations, and could our Government, as a guarantor, get in touch with the other guarantors to seek a solution to this problem?
§ Lord SkelmersdaleMy Lords, as I said in my original Answer to the noble Lord, the United Nations' efforts are very much the key to this situation and we see no case for unilateral initiatives but are giving our full support to the United Nations' efforts. With regard to the first two supplementaries, I agree that there have been some very hopeful signs—notably, the agreement on missing persons—and it is encouraging that after 11 months the two sides are still talking. With elections out of the way, there is a real and continuing opportunity for progress, and we hope it will be exploited by all the parties. With expectations on all sides running high, I must point out that the talks are now at a delicate stage, and I do not think that your Lordships would expect me to comment too much upon them.
With regard to the second supplementary asked by the noble Lord, of course both sides need to show moderation and it is regrettable when they make remarks that threaten the good atmosphere currently prevailing in the talks, but I would suggest to the noble Lord, that it would be unwise to attach too much weight to a single statement.
§ Baroness JegerMy Lords, while appreciating the difficulties of the present situation and the delicate talks that are going on, I must say that I have heard that for the last seven years. It is never the right time to do anything about Cyprus, and may I ask the noble Lord whether he would not agree that, thinking back to what the noble Lord, Lord Caradon, said about the recent meeting in London between Greek and Turkish Cypriots, that has never been the trouble. Is not the trouble that the Turkish Government are giving Mr. Denktash his directions and that, however helpful Mr. Kyprianou tries to be, it is Ankara that makes these decisions? In view of Greece, Turkey and Cyprus all being associated in the EEC, is it not quite unacceptable that Turkish troops should be on the mainland of another member state of the EEC?
§ Lord SkelmersdaleMy Lords, I agree with the noble Baroness that the withdrawal of Turkish troops is an important issue, but there are others and I think the problem would be unlikely to be solved in isolation. There is no practical alternative to finding a settlement through inter-communal negotiations.
§ Lord Hatch of LusbyMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether he is aware that this country under the present Government gives a substantial amount of aid to the Turkish Government? Has that aid and that relationship been used in order to persuade the Turkish Government to represent to Mr. Denktash the necessity for making conciliatory gestures towards the approaches which have been made by President Kyprianou?
§ Lord SkelmersdaleMy Lords, aid is given evenhandedly in this case, and we have official dealings only with the Republic of Cyprus under President Kyprianou. We do not, however, neglect the rights and interests of the Turkish Cypriot community. As I say, it is very important to talk and deal equally with both sides on the island of Cyprus.
§ The Earl of LauderdaleMy Lords, further to my noble friend's reply to that last supplementary question, would he not agree that there is a real danger that things said in this House in favour of one side as against another may do great harm? All the way through this sorry story, with which, like Lady Jeger, I have been familiar for some 25 years, both the Government of Turkey and the Government of Greece have been involved; none is free of blame, and our problem now is to assuage the situation and not cheer on one side against the other.
§ Lord SkelmersdaleMy Lords, I am very grateful to my noble friend for increasing the effect of my answer to the supplementary question of the noble Lord, Lord Hatch.
§ Lord Hatch of LusbyMy Lords, the noble Lord misunderstood my question. I was not referring to British aid to Cyprus; I was referring to British aid to Turkey. I was asking whether the British Government have made representations to the Turkish Government, not to the Cypriot Government, to use its good offices in order to persuade Mr. Denktash to come to compromise negotiations with President Kyprianou.
§ Lord SkelmersdaleMy Lords, I apologise if I misunderstood the noble Lord's question. I am afraid I have no information on that point because it is not directly contiguous with the Question. If I may, I will take the opportunity to write to the noble Lord.
§ Lord DenhamMy Lords, I know that the noble Lord, Lord Jenkins, has been trying to ask a question for some time. We shall have been 14 minutes on this Question, so, after he has asked his question and my noble friend has answered it, I suggest we move on to the next business.
§ Lord Jenkins of PutneyMy Lords, I want, if I may, to press the Minister on his answer to the last supplementary question. May I ask him to consider the possibility that in eliminating, as it were, the Turkish Government from this consideration altogether, he is failing to use his good offices in a position in which, if the Government did exert a little pressure at the appropriate time, a solution might be found? So will he reconsider that answer?
§ Lord SkelmersdaleMy Lords, I did say that I would write to the noble Lord, Lord Hatch, when I have considered it, and that is exactly what I shall do.