May Day: GLC Expenditure (Hansard, 23 July 1981)

§ Lord Boyd-Carpenter
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of the Environment (Lord Bellwin)
My Lords, the GLC's block grant is not given for specific purposes. Like all authorities, the GLC is answerable to the electorate for the way in which its grant is spent. Whether any particular expenditure is intra vires in the last resort is something for the district auditor to decide.

§ Lord Boyd-Carpenter
My Lords, while I thank my noble friend for that reply, does it mean that the Government have no power to check this wholly unnecessary, wasteful and provocative expenditure which will fall upon the already overburdened rate-payers of London?

§ Lord Bellwin
My Lords, at the present time that is exactly the situation. But I want to say that my right honourable friend the Secretary of State has said that, in looking at all expenditure, in the total, by local government, if local authorities are unwilling to meet the Government's targets as set down, then we shall have to look at the possibility of legislation in the next Session to bring home to individual authorities and the electorates the consequences of high-spending policies and to make councils more accountable.

§ Lord Molloy.
My Lords, would the noble Lord perhaps convey to his colleagues in the Government who might be responsible that they should get back some of the £9,000 million from the tax cheaters in the City and other places? This £150,000 is miniscule in comparison to that, which has been fiddled off the British public by tax evasion.

§ Lord Bellwin
My Lords, I think that that is totally irrelevant to the Question.

Lord Harmar-Nichols
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that what is very relevant indeed is that the present leader of the council, Mr. Livingstone, has said that next year and beyond the rate in London may be doubled? That is relevant and any powers that the Government have need to be used. Is my noble friend prepared to make any anticipation of what he would do in those circumstances?

§ Lord Bellwin
My Lords, I have seen the note in the press to which my noble friend refers, and can only say that, if ever there was a case of "vote now, pay later", this must be being very much brought home to the electorate in London. The fact is that the consequences of that kind of increase are very serious for employment, and they have no interest at all in people's ability to pay. This must, of course, be the kind of thing that does so much to detract from the central Government/local government relationship.

§ The Earl of Kimberley
My Lords, would my noble friend say whether Her Majesty's Government can have any possible control over the present leader of the GLC publicly stating the other day, as leader of the GLC and not as a private individual, that he supports murderers and terrorists in the Maze prison in Belfast? He has said publicly so on the wireless and in the newspapers.

§ Lord Bellwin
My Lords, I am afraid that I have again to say that that is not relevant to the Question on the Order Paper.

Lord Spens
My Lords, have the Government given consideration to abolishing the May Day hank holiday, which seems to be a completely useless bank holiday close to two others?

§ Lord Bellwin
My Lords, I am not aware whether the Government are, or are not, giving consideration to that point.

§ Lord Jenkins of Putney
My Lords, is it not the case that central Governments often believe that local governments are in error, whichever side is in power, one way or the other? If, whenever that occurs, central Government overrules local government, what is to happen to local government?

§ Lord Bellwin
My Lords, I would only say something that I have said before in answering Questions. It was always the proud boast of local government that it worked within the parameters set down by central Government, so far as the totality of spending was concerned. It is only now that, for the first time, we are seeing something quite new. We are seeing situations where certain authorities are not willing to work within, and, indeed, set out to thwart, the policies of central Government, which is a new factor in the whole situation.

§ Lord Leatherland
My Lords, are not the Government themselves responsible for this state of affairs, because they have cut down by £87 million the normal grant that would be due to local government in the coming year?

§ Lord Bellwin
Again, my Lords, we are very much off the Question. But the fact is that the Government are certainly not at all responsible, as the noble Lord suggests. The Government are entitled to decide what they think the country can afford, and to expect the same response from local government as has always been given in the past.

§ Lord Leatherland
But, my Lords, are not the Government—

Noble Lords
Order!

§ Viscount Mountgarret
My Lords, following the Question of the noble Lord, Lord Spens, would the Government not agree that, if a public holiday is needed, St. George's Day would be more appropriate than May Day?

§ Lord Bellwin
My Lords, I shall have to give the same reply as I gave to the noble Lord, Lord Spens; I really do not know.

§ The Lord President of the Council (Lord Soames)
My Lord, I suggest that we now move on to the next Question.