HL Deb 22 July 1981 vol 423 cc235-6

2.46 p.m.

Lord Hatch of Lusby

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they appoint Her Majesty's Inspectors of Schools and, if so, whether they have appointed one with special responsibility for overseas affairs.

The Minister of State, Department of Education and Science (Baroness Young)

My Lords, Her Majesty's Inspectors in England are appointed by Order in Council on the recommendation of the Secretary of State for Education and Science. Their assignment reflects the range of educational provision they are called upon to inspect. The deployment of individual inspectors is a matter for the Senior Chief Inspector. At present, one staff inspector includes among his duties specific responsibility for aspects of international relations in education. Other members of the inspectorate continue to be called upon to undertake specialist assignments within this field.

Lord Hatch of Lusby

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for that Answer. Does she recall that on 9th April this year, in answering a related Question, she had this to say: It is not my business to decide how HMIs are deployed"?—[Official Report, 9/4/81; col. 674] Would she care to revise that assertion now? Further, is she aware that there was, traditionally, an HMI with special responsibilities for international affairs who sat on the Advisory Committee for Development Education, and who was moved and has not been replaced? Is it purely coincidence that he was moved at the time when the present Government destroyed that Quango?

Baroness Young

My Lords, I do not believe there is any contradiction in the two Answers that I have given to the noble Lord—either my earlier Answer or the one today. I would confirm that the deployment of individual inspectors is a matter for the Senior Chief Inspector. On the noble Lord's second point, it is true that since last summer the staff inspector with general oversight of international relations in education no longer holds this as his sole responsibility. But he continues to devote part of his time to it and, as I have already indicated, other specialist HMIs continue as before to take on ad hoc assignments in the field as required. The change was made very largely for staffing reasons and in the light of competing demands on HMIs' time.

Baroness David

My Lords, may I ask the Minister, as her Government are so keen on keeping up the quality and standards of education, whether they will continue to reduce the number of HMIs? I understand that we have 18 fewer in 1981 than we had in 1980, and it seems to me very important for the education service that HMIs are kept up to strength.

Baroness Young

My Lords, the noble Baroness's question is very much wide of the original Question that I was asked. But HMI staffing matters are considered in the overall complement within the DES.

Lord Brockway

My Lords, is the Minister aware of the remarkable interest which there is among fifth formers and sixth formers in schools about overseas problems? Did she note Mr. Heseltine's visit to a comprehensive school in Toxteth yesterday, when he was so deeply impressed by the width of knowledge of the students? Will she do her utmost to get our inspectors to encourage this interest?

Baroness Young

My Lords, the HMI's interests cover a wide range. These include education for international understanding and relevant academic subjects, such as languages, history, geography and politics, all of which are subjects which are taken in some schools.

Lord Hatch of Lusby

My Lords, may I press the noble Baroness one stage further? Is she aware that her Answer has justified the suspicions of some people that this Government are less interested in the development of international education than previous Governments, as the HMI now has to split his time between his international responsibilities and other duties? Is it not also the case that the HMI concerned who was a member of the Advisory Committee on Development and who did a most excellent job, was concerned not simply with formal education but also informal education, or adult education as it is often known, and that the description which she gave in her previous Answer of the advisory committee as a Quango should not be taken to indicate that any single member of that committee was paid a penny, because in fact they were not?

Baroness Young

My Lords, as I indicated to the noble Lord when he asked a Question about education for international understanding some weeks ago, the Government do see that this has a part to play in the curriculum and have said so in their curriculum document. We believe that this is an important part of the curriculum. The noble Lord needs to read the curriculum document in its entirety to see the role which we have attached to it.