HL Deb 10 July 1981 vol 422 cc927-8

11.18 a.m.

Baroness David

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they intend to give the Association of Polytechnic Teachers representation on the Burnham Further Education Committee.

Lord Skelmersdale

My Lords, my right honourable and learned friend the Secretary of State for Education and Science announced on 22nd June that he was minded to allow a place on the Burnham Further Education Committee to the Association of Polytechnic Teachers. The organisations currently represented on the committee have been invited to express any comments they may wish to make on the proposal. Those views will be taken into account before a final decision is made on the association's application.

Baroness David

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his reply and understand that the decision is not yet final. But it is not the Government's aim to strengthen responsible trade unionism and orderly collective bargaining? Is it not wise to avoid the fragmentation of unions, which pervades the school sector and which makes collective bargaining there so difficult? In such a delicate area as industrial relations, is not a change foolish when something is working well—as I understand the Burnham Further Education Committee is—and might this not be changed if this extra place were granted?

Lord Skelmersdale

My Lords, a change on the Burnham Committee is bound to be discussed from time to time. I cannot agree that it is necessarily foolish. The House will recall that in my original Answer I said that my right honourable and learned friend was minded to have a change but I did not say that this was going to happen. Associations currently represented on the committee were invited to express their views on the proposal by today. Of course, I cannot pre-empt what may be in those replies, or indeed what my right honourable and learned friend may decide as a result of those replies.

Baroness David

My Lords, may I ask what representations the Secretary of State has had from the local authority associations and from the teachers' associations concerning the proposal?

Lord Skelmersdale

My Lords, representations have been made. I am afraid I am not privy to the details of these, but if I may I shall certainly write to the noble Baroness.

Lord Hatch of Lusby

My Lords, can the noble Lord tell us how many of the nearly 3,000 members of the Association of Polytechnic Teachers are non-academic members whose salaries are not subject to the Burnham Committee?

Lord Skelmersdale

My Lords, I am afraid that again I have not got that information.

Baroness David

My Lords, would it be possible for the Minister to write that as well when he answers my previous question?

Lord Skelmersdale

Yes, my Lords, certainly I will write to both the noble Baroness and the noble Lord on this matter.