Technology College Proposal (Hansard, 8 July 1981)

§ Lord Orr-Ewing
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the OrderPaper.

§ Lord Lyell
My Lords, the Government were glad to be associated with the consultative document, An Open Tech Programme, published on 14th May 1981 by the Manpower Services Commission. This outlines a programme to promote open learning to help meet adult training needs at technician and related levels. Further developments will depend on comments received by September this year and on the availability of resources. There was another consultative document from the commission, which was called A New Training Initiative, and this sets training objectives for the 1980s. Among these objectives are the improvement of skill training and the improvement and extension of initial training and education for young people.

§ Lord Orr-Ewing
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that the high technology industries, particularly aerospace, are still woefully short of people with adequate technical training, both those who are young and those who are more mature? Will the MSC make use of the invaluable knowledge and experience the BBC has gained with the Open University and use these similar facilities for the Open Technical College?

§ Lord Lyell
My Lords, the Government are well aware of the needs for technological training, especially in the industries my noble friend mentioned. Indeed, the open technical training is intended to work through existing education and training institutions. We believe that the Open University and indeed the BBC will both be very useful vehicles for this concept of the Open Tech.

§ Lord Wynne-Jones
My Lords, will Her Majesty's Government bear in mind that there are available throughout the country facilities on quite an extensive scale, in polytechnics and colleges of further education, which could help in doing the kind of thing that the noble Lord, Lord Orr-Ewing, has suggested, and which was earlier suggested, I think by Mr. Prior, with regard to an Open Technical University? Would they bear in mind that this is a matter of urgency, not something that should be left to the slow process of time with which we are only too familiar in this country? It could mean that we wait for 10 or 20 years to do something which needs to be done today. Would they remember that it means setting up a really effective central organisation analogous to the present Open University?

§ Lord Lyell
My Lords, indeed everything the noble Lord has said is very much in the mind of my right honourable friend in the Department of Employment, and the Government intend to use every educational opportunity and facility to further the concept of the Open Tech, be it the Open University, be it the BBC, be it television, be it colleges of advanced technology; every avenue will be used for this new concept.

§ Lord Tanlaw
My Lords, will the Government give a decision as to whether the computer language being taught to children, which is BASIC, is the one which will be used for further adult education in the open technical colleges that have been suggested?

§ Lord Lyell
My Lords, I would have to take advice on the computer language being taught to children. The programme that I have outlined relevant to the Question on the Order Paper deals with postgraduates and young people who have left school and are receiving further education, either at work or before they go further into new technological industries.

§ Lord Tanlaw
My Lords, are the Government in a position to say that whatever computer language is chosen will be a standard one used for both elementary and adult education?

§ Lord Lyell
My Lords, I think that is a little wide of the original Question on the Order Paper, but certainly the noble Lord's comments will be noted in the department.

The Earl of Halsbury
My Lords, will the noble Lord take care to ensure that whatever computer language is taught it will not become as archaic as Latin by the time young people reach their maturity?

§ Lord Lyell
My Lords, we shall take very careful note of the noble Earl's comments. As one who studied for two years and got an O-level in Greek, I believe it is particularly relevant that we should study newer languages.

§ Baroness Fisher of Rednal
My Lords, in view of what the noble Lord said in regard to the Government trying to use every educational means of extending technological education, what opinion is he expressing this afternoon on the UGC grants which are being cut 691 back on those technological universities? I mention Aston in Birmingham particularly, which has got the highest rate of placement of graduates from any university into industry and commerce.

§ Lord Lyell
My Lords, we are very interested to note the relevant points raised by the noble Baroness on the University of Aston. I think the first part of the noble Baroness's question was a little wide of the Question on the Order Paper.

§ Lord Rochester
My Lords, will the noble Lord accept that some of us very much welcome the concept that the proposed Open Tech programme should build on existing resources rather than form a new institution?

§ Lord Lyell
My Lords, the noble Lord's comments are very welcome, and indeed he is very accurate; we accept them.

§ Lord Maybray-King
My Lords, is it not a fact that the Open University provides university education for so many who would otherwise be deprived of it, and the Open Tech could do exactly the same for technical education?

§ Lord Lyell
My Lords, I hope that my earlier answers did give the noble Lord some indication that the Open Tech goes a little further than the Open University as such, but of course the Open University will be a very valuable vehicle for the overall concept of Open Tech, as suggested by the Manpower Services Commission.

§ Lord Orr-Ewing
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that this idea seems to have strong support in all parts of the House, and therefore it is a welcome initiative? I shall, therefore, seek to put down a further Question when we reassemble to see what progress has been made since this was launched at the beginning of May.

§ Lord Lyell
My Lords, the House will have due warning of further Questions to be put down by my noble friend. Indeed, we are grateful for his interest.

§ Lord Hatch of Lusby
My Lords, I am sure every Member of the House welcomes the suggestion of the use of Open University facilities for this very important task. Will the noble Lord answer directly the question put by my noble friend Lady Fisher? Is it not the case that the present Government's policy is reducing technological training and technological apprenticeships at this moment when they are needed to a greater extent than ever before in the history of the country?

§ Lord Lyell
My Lords, the noble Lord's question is rather like the curate's egg; it is good in parts and not so good in other parts. Indeed, the whole concept of Open Tech accepts that we need further and continuing efforts to improve the technological skills in training particularly as regards young people in our country. But, so far as the first part of the noble Lord's question is concerned, perhaps he or his noble friend would care to put down another Question, because it is not strictly relevant to the Question which was raised by my noble friend.