Fish: Subsidised Imports (Hansard, 23 February 1981)

§ Lord Boothby
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

§ The Minister of State, Scottish Office (The Earl of Mansfield)
My Lords, Her Majesty's Government are bound by the Treaty of Rome, which prohibits quantitative restrictions and tariffs on trade between member states of the European Community. Fisheries Ministers have however set up a small team of industry representatives and officials which has been charged with the task of investigating allegations of unfair and illegal imports. This team will report its findings to Ministers and to the bodies which represent the industry for consideration. All concerned will want to see this work completed as quickly as possible. Fisheries Ministers have also told the European Commission that in their view the system operating to prevent cheap imports entering our market from outside the Community is not working effectively. The commissioner responsible has given a firm undertaking to examine this problem.

§ Lord Boothby
My Lords, are the Government aware that in 1980 we imported 109,000 tonnes of fish from the EEC countries, much of it subsidised in one form or another, and no less than 132,000 tonnes from other countries, making a gross total of 241,000 tonnes, valued at £18 million? Is the noble Earl aware that many Scottish fishing boats are now tied up because it no longer pays them to go to sea, that our distant water fishing industry is dead, that our home fishing industry—the inshore fishing industry—is rapidly dying, and that if Her Majesty's Government allow the entire British fishing industry to crash, public opinion will never forgive them?

§ The Earl of Mansfield
I will deal with the various parts of the noble Lord's supplementary question one by one, my Lords. He talks about subsidised imports, but so far there has not been the cogent evidence of subsidised imports that would enable the Government to take the necessary action, and it is to that end that we have set up this small team representing the catchers which we hope will investigate and report on the facts very soon indeed.
As for the totality of imports, total imports in 1980 were 6.4 per cent. up by volume on 1979. The increase in imports in 1980 was greater from other European Community member states than from third countries, mainly fresh and chilled supplies. So far as the state of the fishing industry is concerned, the Government are only too aware that it faces difficulties on a scale unparalleled before. It is for that reason that twice last year we came to their aid financially; it is for that reason that we have advanced to now a review which was due to take place in March of this year; and it was only last week that the industry, in response to an invitation from fishery Ministers, reported to my right honourable friend the Minister of Agriculture and me, among others, setting out the sort of immediate aid they would consider most appropriate in their present very difficult predicament.

§ Lord Beswick
My Lords, when the noble Earl is looking for evidence of subsidies, may I ask whether he 893 is taking into account the fact that the exchange rate at the present time gives a 30 per cent. advantage to the importer? What are the Government doing about that?

§ The Earl of Mansfield
My Louis, it is true, as the noble Lord alleges, that the present strength of the pound gives importers a price advantage so far as foreign sources of fish are concerned. I hesitate to go into the age-old argument, as it is now becoming, but we believe that the first battle for this country is against inflation and that as it is won—and it shows every sign of being won at the moment—interest rates will then come down, and I have no doubt that in due course of time the pound will settle to its appropriate level. To that end we hope indeed I am quite sure—that the present price advantages which other countries enjoy will diminish.

§ Lord Gladwyn
My Lords, do we export any fish to Common Market countries?

§ The Earl of Mansfield
I am afraid I missed that question, my Lords.

§ Lord Gladwyn
My Lords, do we export any fish to our colleagues on the other side of the Channel?

§ The Earl of Mansfield
Very little, my Lords, because they tend to eat rather different fish from us.

§ Baroness Elliot of Harwood
My Lords, is there a time limit on the investigations of this group, commission or whatever it is called, remembering that the problem of timing is vital? How soon has this committee been asked to report on what is a desperate situation?

§ The Earl of Mansfield
My Lords, the preliminaries were completed last week and the group is having its first meeting next Wednesday afternoon. No time has been given for its deliberations and, with respect to my noble friend, I do not think such a time limit is necessary. As I said, it consists of representatives of the catchers' organisations and officials from the various agricultural departments. They know only too well the urgency of the task and I am sure they will devote themselves to their inquiries as quickly as may be.

§ Baroness Phillips
My Lords, will the Minister be able to ask this group to follow up this very simple and perhaps mundane question: whatever happened to the cod?

§ The Earl of Mansfield
My Lords, there are lots of cod in various different directions and if the noble Baroness wishes to eat, cod, there is nothing to stop her except the depth of her purse, but that is another matter.

§ Lord Mowbray and Stourton
My Lords, did my noble friend in answer to the noble Lord, Lord Gladwyn, say he understood that there were very few imports? Am I wrong in recalling that some time 894 ago the Daily Express printed some photographs of lots of illegal imports coming from French ports by night?

§ The Earl of Mansfield
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Gladwyn, was asking about exports of fish from this country to the European Community and I said that by and large we did not. My memory has now been jogged; we have a healthy and indeed burgeoning export trade in salmon and smoked salmon, and a small Scottish firm has recently been given the Queen's Award to Industry, but of course in volume terms that is a small quantity.

§ Lord Boothby
My Lords, if other countries keep our fish out of their markets, why should we not keep theirs out of ours?

§ The Earl of Mansfield
My Lords, the basis of everything the Government are trying to do at the moment is to establish a fair and equitable common fisheries policy which will enable our fishermen to pursue their traditional calling in a state of what I might call peace and profit. All our energies are directed to that aim. It really would not help either us or the fishing industry if we were to abandon our traditional stance of moderation and legality.

§ Lord Goronwy-Roberts
My Lords, does the noble Earl believe that the conclusion of an equitable fisheries régime with our neighbours in the European Community would go a long way indeed towards solving the problems of the British fishing industry, if it did not solve them all? Is he aware that it is good news that this committee has been formed, and even better news that it is moving so swiftly? Can it look at the general question of quotas and subsidies as part of its deliberations?

§ The Earl of Mansfield
I am grateful to the noble Lord for that helpful supplementary question, my Lords. I think the answer to both parts is, yes. As for the last part, the whole question of subsidy and aid for other nations' fishing industries is both complex and indeed fraught. Different countries aid their fishing industries in different ways, and therefore I do not think this body would deliberate and come to any conclusions of fact with the speed with which we should like if we entrusted it with inquiries which were probably more appropriate for the Department of Trade.

§ Lord Lovat
My Lords, may I ask the Minister to give the inshore fishermen an assurance that the 12-mile limit round the British Isles will be maintained?

§ The Earl of Mansfield
My Lords, I think my noble friend knows as well as the rest of the House the extremely firm stance which my right honourable friend the Minister of Agriculture has maintained throughout all the long and difficult negotiations; and, yes, the various heads which we originally settled on as being appropriate and suitable for our fishing industry will be maintained.