Commonwealth Students (Hansard, 19 February 1981)

§ Lord Gladwyn
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

§ The Minister of State, Department of Education and Science (Baroness Young)
My Lords, the number of new first-year students from Nigeria admitted to United Kingdom universities was 833 in 1978 and 721 in 1979; in polytechnics there were 505 in 1978 and 525 in 1979. From all other Commonwealth developing countries the figures for universities were 6,617 in 1978 and 6,150 in 1979, and for polytechnics 2,918 and 2,787 respectively. These figures include first-year students at both undergraduate and post-graduate levels, and those for polytechnics also include students starting non-advanced courses and advanced courses other than at first degree level. I regret that the information for 1980 will not be available for several months.

§ Lord Gladwyn
My Lords, while thanking the noble Baroness for those moderately reassuring figures, might I again ask her whether it is not very satisfactory that they have not been brought up to 1st November 1980—that is, the beginning of the present academic year—because they will be the only significant figures in the present context? In the circumstances, does she not agree that it would now be very desirable for the Government to set up some kind of machinery for consultation with the organisations active in this sphere—that is to say, the United Kingdom Council for Overseas Student Affairs, the Council for the Education of the Commonwealth and the Committee of Vice-Chancellors—to concert with them, if possible, some kind of general policy in future for the admission of foreign and overseas students into this country in order to allay the anxieties, if nothing else, of the universities and polytechnics which are now, as the noble Baroness knows, heavily down the drain as a result of the Government's policy?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, the information for 1980 for universities will be available in two or three months, and for public sector institutions this summer. As I indicated in my reply to the noble Lord on a similar Question yesterday, the Government are monitoring the effects of the policies on overseas students.

§ Lord Mackie of Benshie
My Lords, can the noble Baroness say why it takes so long to get the figures for the students registering on 1st November 1980? It seems ludicrous that they are not available.

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, I think the noble Lord will find that students, particularly students from overseas, register during quite a period of time after the beginning of the academic year, and the fact is that this information is not available today.

§ Lord Goronwy-Roberts
My Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that these figures will be very carefully 772 examined by Members of this House and, indeed, by representatives of the organisations mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Gladwyn, because they would seem to indicate a fairly substantial drop as between one year and another, and we still do not know what has happened since the beginning of the session in October 1980? May I further ask whether she is aware of the immense and growing importance of Nigeria, of its increasing potential as both an industrial and an agricultural country, and that the figures for Nigeria need to be very carefully examined indeed to see whether in fact we are grasping the opportunity of the best form of investment in that country through the encouragement of student exchange?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, the Government have already published a Statistical Bulletin on all the most up-to-date information that we have on overseas students, and a copy is in the Library and is available. We are monitoring the effects. We are, of course, aware of the concern of this House and others about the whole question of overseas students' fees and the effect not only on our own universities, polytechnics and other institutes of higher education, but also on our relationships with members of the Commonwealth.

§ Lord Kaldor
My Lords, will the noble Baroness agree that taken individually every university knows perfectly well on 2nd November the number of overseas students who were registered the previous day? The university could also inform the Department of Education as to the percentage change in numbers compared with the previous year. From what I gather, the experience varies very greatly between different universities: in some cases it is small and in some cases it is large. If the noble Baroness does not yet have the figures, something is wrong with the Department of Education.

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, I cannot accept that. The tentative figures that have been published through the universities have been published at intervals since the start of the 1980 academic year. The particular figures for which the noble Lord, Lord Gladwyn, asked are not yet available. However, as the noble Lord who asked this supplementary question will know, we have already published figures which show that compared with 1979–80 the numbers of first-year students—that is, all first-year students from overseas—have fallen by around 10 per cent. in the universities and 28 per cent. in the polytechnics and other public sector institutions. These figures were published some time ago.

§ Lord Brockway
My Lords, will the noble Baroness not agree that this fall in the number of students is regrettable and likely to be larger in the 1980 figures because of the higher charges? Is it not regrettable from two points of view? Does it not limit knowledge and appreciation of this country abroad, and does it not mean that the students who do come are from the rich élite or are subsidised by Governments—which is very much the same thing—and do not include many promising students from all classes in these territories?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, I have already indicated in answers that I have given to similar questions that we wish that more money was available for overseas students. But it is right that as a Government we should give priority to the importance of getting our economy right, and that is what we are doing. As regards the countries of origin of overseas students, money is still available through the overseas development organisation to help students from the developing countries of the Commonwealth.

§ Lord Gladwyn
My Lords, do the Government not realise that instead of saving money through this policy they are actually losing money?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, that is a statement which the Government are not able to accept.

§ Lord Kilmarnock
My Lords, I hold in my hand the Statistical Bulletin to which the noble Baroness, Lady Young, referred this afternoon and yesterday. I should like to draw her attention to the top of page 3, where it says: Provisional information for universities about individual countries of origin should be available within a few weeks". May I suggest to the noble Baroness that this should be published before the appearance of the Final Educational Statistical Record for 1980–81. Can she possibly help the House on this subject, in which we show such a great interest, by making these figures available in advance of the final statistical record?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, the Department of Education and Science has published all the figures that have been available since the start of the academic year 1980. The Statistical Bulletin to which reference has been made was published this month and we do not yet have any more information to add to it. When we do, we shall publish it.

§ Baroness David
My Lords, does the noble Baroness have figures for the colleges of higher education? In a way it seems a pity to separate them from the polytechnics because those colleges have contributed a great deal to the education of overseas students.

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, if the noble Baroness will table a Question on that, I shall supply the figures.