HL Deb 12 February 1981 vol 417 cc278-80

3.11 p.m.

Lord Northfield

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether, despite their continued ban on sale over the counter of cheap reading glasses, they will make it clear that patients are entitled to buy such glasses and that shops can openly offer them for sale to those armed with their prescription, wherever it has been obtained.

Lord Cullen of Ashbourne

My Lords, the Opticians Act lays down that only registered medical practitioners and opticians may sell optical appliances to patients. However, under NHS arrangements, patients have a legal right to ask for their prescriptions and take them to any registered practitioner of their choice to be dispensed.

Lord Northfield

My Lords, would the noble Lord take steps to give some publicity to that part of his Answer which indicates to people that they need not buy their spectacles where they have their eyes tested and that, if they know places where they can buy these cheap imported spectacles for £5 or less per pair, they are entitled to go there and buy spectacles if they have obtained their prescription somewhere else?

That is my first question. My second question is this: does the noble Lord realise that, despite the progress that this indicates, we are still in the ridiculous position that people like myself who, as we get older, simply want increased magnifying power in order to be able to read, have to put the state in the position of incurring testing fees in connection with our eyesight, whereas many of us would be glad simply to buy these glasses off the peg, and that many medical people reckon that there is no harm whatsoever in that?

Lord Cullen of Ashbourne

My Lords, we have been into this question on a number of occasions before. The situation is that anybody with a prescription can take it to someone who is prepared to sell him glasses. On the other hand, anybody who is selling glasses without an optical practitioner present to make sure that the patient is getting the right glasses is going against the dictates of the General Optical Council and can in fact be prosecuted.

Lord Rugby

My Lords, should not the word "patient" be used with the greatest circumspection, since a great number of people have absolutely nothing wrong with their eyesight? If they are compelled to take eyesight tests, are they not therefore victims, rather than patients?

Lord Cullen of Ashbourne

My Lords, the situation is that a patient may have nothing wrong with him, except the fact that he is getting a bit older and cannot see as well as he used to. On the other hand, he could have something else wrong with him, such as hypertension, diabetes or glaucoma, which can easily be seen in an eye examination.

Lord Ferrier

My Lords, would my noble friend the Minister care to repeat the statement he made the last time we had exchanges of this sort, about the advisability of being able to buy glasses without prescription, in order that it will be quite clear that those in the profession agree with what he said on that occasion?

Lord Cullen of Ashbourne

I am sorry, my Lords. I really cannot remember what I did say at that time. I am sure that it made very good sense, and if anybody wants to check it he has only to read Hansard.

Lord Wells-Pestell

My Lords, may I ask the Minister whether one way out of the present difficulty, which the Government cannot seem to overcome, is to invite Woolworth's to supply the service they supplied 40 years ago?

Lord Cullen of Ashbourne

My Lords, Harrods and Selfridge's have been providing this service for some years. Debenham's have now started doing so in most of their shops. Anybody else can have a go as long as they have the services of a registered practitioner.

Lord Wallace of Coslany

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that anybody buying spectacles off the peg is being utterly foolish, because in so doing he can ruin his eyesight instead of improving it?

Lord Cullen of Ashbourne

My Lords, to the tedium of noble Lords I have tried to make that point many times before.

Lord Northfield

My Lords, as there is a good deal of contrary evidence about this subject in the medical profession—I ask your Lordships to read the editorial in the British Medical Journal of 13th December last—would it not be a good idea if the noble Lord conveyed to his right honourable friend the suggestion that it would be beneficial to have a medical inquiry into this issue to find out whether this monopoly and this restriction are any longer justified?

Lord Cullen of Ashbourne

My Lords, I am sure that my honourable friend the Minister of Health will make a note of what the noble Lord has suggested.