HL Deb 22 December 1981 vol 426 cc395-8
Lord Cullen of Ashbourne

My Lords, I beg to move that this Bill be now read a first time.

Moved, That the Bill be now read a first time.—(Lord Cullen of Ashbourne.)

The Lord Chancellor

My Lords, the Question is, That the said Bill be now read a first time. As many as are of that opinion will say, Content?

Noble Lords

Content.

The Lord Chancellor

To the contrary, Not-Content?

Lord Brockway

Not-Content.

The Lord Chancellor

I think that the Contents have it.

Lord Brockway

No.

The Lord Chancellor

The Contents have it.

On Question, Bill read a first time.

Then, standing order No. 43 having been dispensed with (pursuant to Resolution):

Lord Cullen of Ashbourne

My Lords, I beg to move that this Bill be now read a second time.

Moved, That the Bill be now read a second time.—(Lord Cullen of Ashbourne.)

The Lord Chancellor

The Question is, That the said Bill be now read a second time.

Lord Brockway

May I address the House?

Several noble Lords

No.

Lord Beswick

Order!

The Lord Chancellor

As many as are of that opinion will say, Content?

Noble Lords

Content.

The Lord Chancellor

To the contrary, Not-Content?

Lord Brockway

Not-Content.

The Lord Chancellor

The Contents have it.

On Question, Bill read a second time.

Lord Cullen of Ashbourne

My Lords, I beg to move that this Bill be not committed.

Moved, That the Bill be not committed.—(Lord Cullen of Ashbourne.)

The Lord Chancellor

The Question is, That the said Bill be not committed. As many as are of that opinion will say, Content?

Noble Lords

Content.

The Lord Chancellor

To the contrary, Not-Content?

Lord Brockway

Not-Content.

The Lord Chancellor

The Contents have it.

Committee negatived.

Lord Cullen of Ashbourne

My Lords, I beg to move that this Bill be now read a third time.

Moved, That the Bill be now read a third time.—(Lord Cullen of Ashbourne.)

The Lord Chancellor

The Question is, That the said Bill be now read a third time. As many as are of that opinion will say, Content?

Noble Lords

Content.

The Lord Chancellor

To the contrary, Not-Content?

Lord Brockway

Not-Content.

Lord Beswick

Not-Content.

The Lord Chancellor

The Contents have it.

On Question, Bill read a third time.

Lord Cullen of Ashbourne

I beg to move that this Bill do now pass.

Moved, That the Bill do now pass.—(Lord Cullen of Ashbourne.)

The Lord Chancellor

The Question is, That the Bill do now pass. As many as are of that opinion will say, Content? To the contrary, Not-Content? The Contents have it.

Bill passed.

Lord Beswick

My Lords, may I ask the noble and learned Lord why—

Several noble Lords

Order!

Lord Beswick

My Lords, may we have a ruling from the Lord Chancellor? I distinctly heard calls of Not-Content to my right and I wondered why, on this occasion and on no other, that call was disregarded.

The Lord Chancellor

My Lords, I put the Question twice and on the second occasion I held that the Contents had it.

Lord Brockway

My Lords, I seek the view of the noble and learned Lord. Is it not possible, when a Bill is before this House, to take part in a discussion when those Motions are moved?

The Lord Chancellor

My Lords, it is not for me to act as Leader of the House. I must, however, tell the noble Lord that this is the Consolidated Fund Bill and that it is not customary in this House to discuss matters on this Bill. This is not a mirror image of the House of Commons.

Lord Brockway

My Lords, I appreciate that it is not customary. Is the noble and learned Lord aware that only deep compulsion would lead me to wish to speak? Surely I am allowed to speak on this Bill?

The Lord Chancellor

The Question was put, my Lords, and the voices taken. The Question has been decided by the House.

The Minister of State, Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Earl Ferrers)

My Lords, perhaps I may say, in the position of acting as Leader of the House, that I am sure the noble Lord, Lord Brockway, will understand that the Consolidated Fund Bill, by custom and practice, has always been taken in this House without consideration, as a matter of courtesy and as a matter of fact. It would be contrary to all precedents—I say this with the greatest respect—for noble Lords to speak on this issue, and indeed the Government do not have Ministers available, as they do in another place, in order to answer such questions. If Lord Brockway wishes to alter the customs of the House—and there are as many unwritten rules to enable the procedure of this House to proceed as there are written ones—he should do so (again, I say this with the greatest respect) through the usual channels or through the Procedure Committee.

Lord Brockway

My Lords, I have the greatest respect—

Lord Peart

My Lords, I hope all noble Lords will observe the customs of the House.

Lord Brockway

My Lords, I have the greatest desire to appreciate and carry out the customs of the House. It is only because two issues are now before the country, issues of critical importance, that I wanted an opportunity to raise the matter. I asked that they might be raised and I indicated a Private Notice Question. Both were declined, and it was only because of that that I sought to raise the matter now. I accept the decision of the House.

Lord Denham

My Lords, I beg to move that this House do now adjourn during pleasure until 11.25 a.m.

Moved accordingly, and, on Question, Motion agreed to.

House adjourned during pleasure.

House resumed.