HL Deb 17 December 1981 vol 426 cc333-8

2.52 p.m.

Lord Sandys to move that the scheme laid before the House on 27th November be approved.

The noble Lord said: My Lords, the Marine Fish Farming (Financial Assistance) Scheme 1981 will provide the back-up grants which are necessary before marine fish farms can qualify for aid under the 1981 FEOGA interim aid scheme for the inshore fishing industry. The FEOGA scheme was introduced in 1978 and has been renewed each year since then. It provides grants of 25 per cent. of capital costs approved by the European Commission for aquaculture projects which breed or rear fish, crustaceans or molluscs in salt or brackish water for commercial purposes.

One of the requirements of the FEOGA scheme is that member states must finance at least 5 per cent. of the investment. In some parts of the country, aid has been available in one form or another. The Depart- ment of Industry have on occasion been able to provide regional development grants, for example, and in Scotland, the Highland and Islands Development Board have provided funds for marine fish farmers. In other parts of the country, however, national aid has not been available and this has put fish farmers at a disadvantage compared with their competitors in other regions and in other member states. When the Fisheries Act was being considered by your Lordships last Session, we stressed that we wanted power in Section 31 to put this right. We have now done so. Any fish farmer who wished to apply for the 1981 FEOGA aid would not be disqualified on the grounds that he could not receive the necessary national back-up grant.

I should point out that the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments asked for elucidation of three points: first, the use of the term "fish farming" rather than "marine fish farming" in paragraph 3(1)(a) of the scheme; secondly, whether the Limitation Acts apply; and, thirdly, whether the person appointed to hear representations in respect of demands for recovery of grant paid should be appointed by the Minister who approves the expenditure. The Ministry provided the information requested in a memorandum and in oral evidence to the committee, and this is set out in the committee's report.

Turning to the details of the scheme, the statutory instrument is made under Section 31 of the Fisheries Act 1981, which was brought into operation last month by the Fisheries Act 1981 (Commencement No. 2) Order 1981. The scheme's scope is limited to providing back-up grants for the FEOGA interim aid and, in consequence, grant will be paid only in respect of expenditure approved by the EEC Commission. The rate of grant will be 5 per cent. of approved expenditure, paid in addition to the 25 per cent. FEOGA grant, except where the project is also being grant aided by other United Kingdom public funds. In such cases grant under this scheme would be reduced.

If the other grant amounted to less than 5 per cent. of the approved expenditure, grant under this scheme would be paid so as to bring up this aggregate grant to 5 per cent. If the other grant amounted to 5 per cent. or more, no grant would be payable under this scheme.

Grant will generally be paid to applicants at the same time as the FEOGA aid is paid. This will help to ensure that the grant is paid properly. The scheme contains the usual provisions for revoking the approval of grant and recovering grant paid that appear in grant schemes administered by MAFF. Prosecutions, for instance for fraudulent claims, would be taken under Section 17 of the 1981 Act.

Finally, your Lordships may wish to have some details of how the scheme is operating. As I explained earlier, the scheme relates only to applicants for aid under the 1981 FEOGA interim aid scheme. This was agreed at the Council of Ministers' meeting on 29th September, and the closing date for applications to reach the agricultural departments was 2nd November. I am happy to say that, despite the very short period available for preparation of applications, a number of fish farmers managed to submit applications in time, and these were forwarded to the EEC Commission before the deadline of 1st December. My Lords, I beg to move.

Moved, That the scheme laid before the House on 27th November be approved.—(Lord Sandys.)

2.56 p.m.

Lord Bishopston

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for the way in which he has introduced the order and the details that he has given. As he says, it is important because it provides the essential back-up of grants to enable marine fish farmers to qualify for aid under the 1981 FEOGA aid scheme for the inshore fishing industry. We welcome this help, but in view of the importance of the potential of the fish farming industry when other fishery prospects are far from satisfactory, I should like to put one or two questions to the noble Lord.

I recall that various proposals were made in a report of two or three years ago following a review of problems and possibilities affecting the fish farming industry, and one or two questions arise from that. One concerns the definition. I think that it would be useful if the noble Lord would define a little more clearly the term "marine" fish farming, as compared with inshore, freshwater and other categories. Can the noble Lord also say whether there has been any agreement that fish farming should be regarded as agriculture and so de-rated, or regarded as industry and rated? It may be that during the short period in which the details of the scheme have been passing between the two Houses I have missed information on that point, but it has been a matter of great concern to the industry over the years. Can the noble Lord also say whether some of the environmental queries of the report to which I referred have been resolved between the MAFF and the DOE?—because there are environmental considerations as well.

I turn to the Fisheries Act 1981, to which reference is made. Section I deals with fish farming, and Section 32 refers to R and D, which is very important to this industry, as indeed to others. It is in particular essential to the industry's growth. It might be helpful if a little more were said about the help available through reasearch and development. I certainly pay tribute to the R and D facilities of MAFF and other official bodies whose knowledge and experience is of great help to the fish farming industry. I am not sure how greatly the industry is aware of what help is available nationally and from the EEC, and a word or two on that aspect might be informative for the industry.

As we all know, fish farming has grown in recent years, and in the light of the current fishing industry difficulties it can produce more, partly to fill the gap, though those who know anything about the industry realise that one can be too optimistic in this direction. Britain does not have the natural resources of some other countries, such as the warm water and good climate of Japan and other places, but I believe that given reasonable Government help and encouragement, we can add to our food resources in this way.

In this, of course, the Government, the local authorities, the water boards and in Scotland, I think, as the noble Lord has said, the Highlands and Islands Development Board, have a part to play. I certainly welcome the order and the provision it makes, and it would be helpful if the noble Lord could comment on some of the questions I have posed to him this afternoon.

3 p.m.

Lord Vernon

My Lords, I find it difficult to discuss the question of fish farming without first referring to the late Lady Emmet of Amberley, who did so much to bring the subject of fish farming to the notice of your Lordships and, indeed, to the notice of successive Governments.

From this Bench, I should certainly like to welcome this order in so far as it gives grant aid to individual fish farmers and so enables them to take advantage of the FEOGA grant. The only doubt I have relates to the scale of the grant, because, when I used to have something to do with this subject in one of your Lordships' EEC sub-committees some years ago, the scale of the FEOGA grant was 25 per cent. and the minimum national grant had to be 40 per cent. of the FEOGA grant. If that is so, the scale of grant has actually declined, and I wonder whether the noble Lord, Lord Sandys, would say something about that when he speaks again.

I do not think anybody who reads the last Annual Report of the White Fish Authority—that for 1980–81—can fail to be impressed by the remarkable progress which is being made in the development of marine fish farming, and in particular in the prospects which are available for commercial farming of, particularly, turbot, Dover sole and scallops. I think that possibly we may he able to look forward to the day when these fish, or certainly Dover sole and turbot, will cease to be something for the luxury market and will in fact be available for mass consumption, in the same way as has happened with chicken since the war.

Finally, I would say this: I think that successive Governments in this country have been somewhat slow to recognise the potential which, by reason of our very long coastline, we have in this country for the exploitation of this particular field. In this respect, I think we compare unfavourably with the Japanese, who have done far more than we have. Admittedly, their climate is slightly different and the situation is not entirely comparable, but I feel that we can do much more than we have done in the past, and I hope very much that the Government will think so, too.

3.4 p.m.

Lord Sandys

My Lords, we have had a useful debate, and I should like to emphasise that the purpose of this scheme is to ensure that marine fish farmers should be able to qualify for FEOGA assistance under the interim aid scheme. We have broken some new ground in introducing this scheme, and I would certainly agree with the noble Lord, Lord Vernon, that the House and indeed the industry as a whole owe a debt of gratitude to the late Lady Emmet of Amberley for the interest she took and for the way she inspired your Lordships in this particular direction over a period of years.

The noble Lord, Lord Bishopston, raised a number of matters to which I wish to refer. First of all, he asked me in regard to the meaning of the words "marine fish farming". This appears in the order itself, on page 2, at the top, where it says: 'marine fish farming project' means a project for fish farming in salt or brackish water". There is no other definition which appears in the 1981 Fisheries Act. The order specifically refers to this definition. I hope that this satisfies the noble Lord. He referred to the question of what action is being taken on the de-rating of fish farms. The Government implemented the de-rating of fish farms in the Local Government Planning and Land Act 1980. Naturally he will be aware of that. I hope that that is a sufficient answer and perhaps will record that as a fact of importance.

The question of what aid is available to fish farmers covers a wide field because there are a considerable number of bodies which can give and have given grants for fish farming in the past: the Ministry itself, the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries in Scotland and the Welsh Office provide grants under the Agriculture and Horticultural Development Scheme and the Agricultural and Horticultural Co-operation Scheme. Grants may also be made by the Department of Industry (and I referred to this) in the form of regional development grants; by the Scottish Development Agency; by the Highlands and Islands Development Board; by the Welsh Development Agency; by the Development Board for Rural Wales and by the Council for Small Industries in Rural Areas (in England). Aid is provided under the European Community Marketing and Processing Grant Aid Scheme, for which there is a United Kingdom back up given under the Agricultural Products Processing and Marketing (Improvement Grant) Regulations 1977. Finally, in Northern Ireland, there is the Assistance to Fish Farming Scheme (Northern Ireland) 1973 which is a parallel measure to the Marine Fish Farming (Financial Assistance) Scheme which we are concerned with today.

The noble Lord further asked what research and development aid is available for fish farmers. I think the situation is that the national programme of fishery research includes fish cultivation. The 1980–81 expenditure was £2.4 million at full economic cost. The details of the expenditure are: for marine fish, £500,000; for salmon, trout and freshwater fish, £670,000; for shellfish, £420,000; for research into fish diseases and parasites, £780,000. I know the noble Lord is interested in the Ministry laboratories at Lowestoft. I am sure he will be interested to know that latter figure. I hope that covers the points raised by the noble Lord, Lord Bishopston.

The noble Lord, Lord Vernon, referred to the question of the scale of the national grant. The only comment I can make is that this is a new scheme; we are breaking new ground. The 5 per cent. mentioned in my speech is the minimum requirement of the EEC regulation No. 1852/78/EEC.

Lord John-Mackie

My Lords, on the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Bishopston, as to what was covered by marine sea farming, would that cover pumping sea water into a reservoir for the job?

Lord Sandys

My Lords, I should have to investigate that. As the noble Lord will be aware, the order identifies marine fish farms as in sea water and brackish water. We shall have to examine the point made by the noble Lord.

On Question, Motion agreed to.