HL Deb 15 December 1981 vol 426 cc84-6

2.48 p.m.

Lord Jenkins of Putney

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they are aware that the Greek Government is seeking the removal of American nuclear weapons from its soil and whether they will follow this example.

Viscount Trenchard

My Lords, the Greek Government has made it clear that it wishes to review its position within NATO. This could affect all NATO bases within that country, but no decisions have yet been taken. As the United Kingdom remains fully committed to participation in the alliance military structure there is no need for the Government to review their policy towards the stationing of allied forces in this country.

Lord Jenkins of Putney

My Lords, while thanking the noble Viscount for that Answer, may I ask whether he is in a position to assure the House that, although the American weapons on British soil are under, as it were, American management, the British Government possess a dual key arrangement and that no such weapon can be fired without the active consent of the Government?

Viscount Trenchard

My Lords, I do not think that that question really arises from the Question tabled by the noble Lord. However, the noble Lord has received answers on previous occasions—certainly answers have been given in this House on previous occasions—to the effect that in a time of emergency the use of United States' bases in this country is the subject of joint decision. That has been the case in all the years that we have had American bombers as well as our own stationed here, and it will continue to be the case.

Lord Stewart of Fulham

My Lords, as we look across Europe today, is it not gratifying to know that we belong to, and take an active part in, a powerful alliance of free nations?

Viscount Trenchard

My Lords, I agree. The suggestion of the original Question is lack of unity in that alliance, and I can assure the House that there is near to total unity in the alliance on all questions. When the new Administration in Greece has taken stock, we very much hope that it will come into line with all other members.

Lord Gladwyn

My Lords, if the Greek Government insist on the withdrawal of nuclear weapons from Greek territory, will they have been deemed to have left NATO?

Viscount Trenchard

My Lords, I think that is a question for NATO, which I cannot at this stage answer.

Lord Brockway

My Lords, in view of the fact that the Question suggests that this country should end its nuclear weapons, may I ask the noble Viscount this question: do not military strategists now recognise that 50 missiles with warheads going North, South, East and West could destroy the greater part of the population of this country? Is the noble Viscount aware that, while many of us are demanding the ending of nuclear weapons in this country, it is not unilateralist, and that in Europe the movement is stronger against nuclear weapons than it is in this country?

Viscount Trenchard

My Lords, the whole question of the necessary balance of arms between NATO and the Warsaw Pact has been discussed in this House on many occasions and is a separate question. The noble Lord always gives me the feeling that in his opinion the policy of deterrence, including the possession of nuclear weapons, is less desirable than aggression. Yet, without aggression, no weapons will ever be used.

Lord Derwent

My Lords, when a supplementary question has nothing to do with the Question on the Order Paper, is it in order to answer it?

Viscount Trenchard

My Lords, possibly not, but a number of people read the record of these debates, and these subjects are important.

The Duke of Norfolk

My Lords, bearing on this matter, which does concern the Question on the Order Paper, could my noble friend please confirm whether the Russians are deploying one new SS 20 every three weeks, and whether the total they have now deployed is something like 250?

Viscount Trenchard

My Lords, my noble friend is quite right, and I wish that the noble Lord who asked this Question, and the noble Lord, Lord Brockway, would draw attention to that fact more often.

Lord Hill-Norton

My Lords, may I ask the noble Viscount whether in his knowledge any country belonging to the Warsaw Pact has asked the Soviet Union to withdraw nuclear weapons from their territory? Secondly, may I ask him whether there is a dual key arrangement, so far as he is aware, between the Governments of the members of the Warsaw Pact and the Soviet Union?

Viscount Trenchard

My Lords, I very much doubt whether either of those two propositions is the case within the Warsaw Pact.

Lord Jenkins of Putney

My Lords, is it not the case that it probably would not comfort the noble Lord much if there was a dual key arrangement on the Warsaw Pact side? Would the noble Viscount confirm that, in fact, there is no dual key arrangement on this side so far as American nuclear weapons are concerned?

Viscount Trenchard

My Lords, I have nothing to add to the Answer I gave to the noble Lord just now.