HL Deb 07 December 1981 vol 425 cc1201-3

2.49 p.m.

Lord Kilmarnock

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether, in view of the statement by Lord Trefgarne on 26th November (col. 918) that the Government would have wished to consult the BBC more fully on the proposed closure of certain external services, but were precluded from so doing by the short notice they were given of the Opposition's Motion in another place on 26th October, they will now undertake to return to the BBC external services management the decision how and where to apply the £1½ million saving required of them.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Trefgarne)

No, my Lords. To do as the noble Lord suggests would cut across the Royal Charter and the Licence and Agreement under which my noble friend the Foreign and Commonwealth Secretary prescribes the hours and languages to be broadcast and other services to be performed by the external services.

Lord Kilmarnock

My Lords, while thanking the noble Lord for that reply, which I am afraid does not give me a great deal of encouragement, may I ask him this: While not disputing the Government's right, under existing arrangements, to prescribe and deprescribe the external vernacular services of the BBC, would he agree to discuss with the BBC the possibility of merging the Spanish and Latin-American services into a single Ibero-American service, in line with other major European broadcasters? Would he accept such a solution if it could be achieved at no additional cost within the framework of the overall saving required of the external services?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, the Government have to take their decisions in respect of which services are to be continued, the times at which they are to be broadcast, and so on, in the light of the foreign policy considerations which govern our affairs with the particular countries concerned. It was for that reason that we arrived at the decisions that we did about the service, for example, to the Spanish nation to which the noble Lord referred just now.

Lord Hooson

My Lords, does that mean the Government are unwilling to consider with the BBC perhaps the restructuring of some of their foreign services? If, for example, there were vacancies in this Latin-American service, could it not be so adapted that there would also be the beaming of some services to Spain? If restructuring is possible under the limit of the budget which the Government have set, are the Government against the BBC doing that?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, the foreign policy considerations to which I referred are paramount, but that is not to say that the Government would not be flexible in considering an arrangement such as the noble Lord, Lord Kilmarnock, or the noble Lord, Lord Hooson, have suggested. But there are considerable technical difficulties in the way of the proposal which the noble Lord now puts forward.

Lord Byers

My Lords, would not the noble Lord get in touch with the BBC to see what can be done? If it is not going to cost any more money, why should we not have the extra service?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, we are constantly in touch with the BBC on this and related matters, but I say again that there are technical difficulties in the way of the proposal which has been advanced.

Lord Strabolgi

My Lords, will the Government consult with the BBC about the transcription services as they may find, if they go into it a little more fully, that it is not quite so easy as they seem to think to do without a subsidy in competition with other countries, who subsidise theirs?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, that is another question, but I went into this matter very fully when we discussed the other day the Unstarred Question of the noble Lord. I do not think that t have anything to add to what I said then.

Lord Morris

My Lords, if the reason for proscribing the Spanish and Italian vernacular services is now solely a matter of foreign policy, which is different from what we have learned from Ministers in the past—that it is purely for economic reasons—would my noble friend be kind enough to say what is the reason behind this foreign policy decision?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, the noble Lord misunderstood what I said. The foreign policy considerations to which I referred lead us to establish a pecking order of priority of these services, and it was that reason which persuaded us to conclude that the Spanish and Italian services could not continue.

Lord Morris

My Lords, is my noble friend suggesting that Anglo-Spanish and Anglo-Italian relations are of no importance whatsoever?

Lord Trefgarne

No, my Lords, I did not say that.

Lord Kilmarnock

My Lords, will not the noble Lord agree that on 26th November at col. 918 of Hansard he said: We would have wished them to have consulted the BBC more fully and to have informed your Lordships in parallel"? Will not the noble Lord agree that I am now giving him this opportunity, and will he not take it up? Furthermore, would he not finally agree that, in view of the current tensions in Spain in particular, it is particularly desirable to continue direct broadcasting to that country?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, I went into this matter very fully when we discussed the other day the Unstarred Question and when I answered the questions of the noble Lord in considerable detail in respect of the Spanish service. I do not think that the House would wish me to repeat all that now.