§ 3.10 p.m.
§ Lord BrockwayMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what conclusions have been reached in the discussions on the future independence of Namibia (South West Africa).
§ The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Lord Carrington)My Lords, the five are still discussing their suggestions for constitutional principles as guidelines for the Constituent Assembly with all those concerned. As soon as there is agreement on these, the five will move on to the second phase of confidence-building measures.
§ Lord BrockwayMy Lords, while welcoming the hope of independence for Namibia after this long delay, may I ask whether the Minister would not agree that it is unprecedented for the principles of a constitution to be imposed before a self-governing legislature has been elected? Would he not also agree that the purpose is, first, to obtain the security of South Africa, and secondly, through the compensation clauses to safeguard the interests of mineral companies which have been drawing vast profits to the detriment of the Namibian Government economy under an illegal régime?
§ Lord CarringtonMy Lords, the noble Lord misunderstands the situation. Nobody is seeking to impose anything on anybody. What the contact group are seeking to do is to get agreement among all the parties concerned on constitutional principles, which will reassure those concerned.
§ Lord Hatch of LusbyMy Lords, could the noble Lord the Foreign Secretary tell the House whether he has any evidence and, if so, what evidence, that the South African Government are following any different policy from that which resulted in the breakdown of the Geneva talks at the beginning of this year, particularly in view of the fact that they are constantly invading both Mozambique and Angola?
§ Lord CarringtonMy Lords, the contact group, and in particular the United States Government, have been in touch with the Government of South Africa over a period of time and all five of us are hopeful that there will be a settlement.
§ Lord BrockwayMy Lords, would not the Minister agree that it is a little ironical that the South African Government should be supporting principles for the constitution which are aimed at maintaining human rights?
§ Lord CarringtonMy Lords, if all Governments support good principles, that is all to the good.
§ Baroness Llewelyn-Davies of HastoeMy Lords, since this is rather a complex matter, may I ask a purely factual question of the Foreign Secretary? Can we broadly assume that the five nations, the front-line states and even SWAPO are broadly in accord with those proposals?
§ Lord CarringtonMy Lords, the front-line states and SWAPO have commented upon the contact group's proposals and have made one or two comments and suggestions upon them; but, broadly speaking, I do not know whether there would be very much difficulty. The South African Government and the Namibian internal parties have not yet replied.