HL Deb 13 April 1981 vol 419 cc761-2

2.56 p.m.

Baroness Jeger

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government what has been the effect on the number of 16-year-old pupils leaving school at Easter of the changes in supplementary benefit arrangements which exclude those who do not leave in April from benefit until September.

Lord Cullen of Ashbourne

My Lords, the current regulations governing supplementary benefit came into force in November 1980. The Government have not yet been able to obtain firm evidence of the effect on school leaving patterns. My right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Education and Science has asked the CSE examining boards for returns relating to entry and attendance at the summer term examinations and expects that this will enable him to assess the effect of the regulations in the autumn.

Baroness Jeger

My Lords, while thanking the noble Lord for that Answer, may I ask him whether he can explain why this change was made and whether Her Majesty's Government appreciate what unfair pressure is being brought on children, especially where their parents are unemployed, to leave at Easter so that they can immediately collect their social security; whereas if they stayed on and took their examinations in June they cannot get benefit until September? Will he undertake to monitor this carefully, if not to look again at the whole scheme, which I think is intolerable?

Lord Cullen of Ashbourne

My Lords, as I am sure the noble Baroness knows, this new system was introduced as a result of Social Assistance which came out in 1978, during the time of the last Administration. The Supplementary Benefits Commission accepted the proposal and it was brought in after a very great deal of consultation. I think that 50,000 copies of Social Assistance were sent out, there has been a White Paper since then, in 1979, and the matter has been very fully discussed. I am not saying that everybody agreed with the proposal, although many did. To see whether it has been a good idea or a bad one will not be possible until we see the result of this year's examinations.

Baroness David

My Lords, may I ask the noble Lord to ask his right honourable friends and perhaps his right honourable friend in the Department of Education and Science whether they could do something about the fact that O-level candidates who leave at Easter can go back to school and take their exams in the summer, whereas those taking CSE examinations cannot? This seems to be grossly unfair and something which ought to be corrected quickly.

Lord Cullen of Ashbourne

My Lords, that is a slightly different point; but I understand it is planned that the two examinations are to be brought together in a few years' time. We are going to move towards that situation but I doubt whether the single examination will come into being before 1986.

Baroness David

My Lords, it is said, even now, that the examinations will not merge until 1985; but it seems to me that there is a long time between now and then. Could the noble Lord get his right honourable friend to get things moving faster?

Lord Cullen of Ashbourne

My Lords, the movement will be quite rapid, but it will take some time before it is effective.

Lord Alexander of Potterhill

My Lords, I wonder whether the noble Lord the Minister will give some indication of when Her Majesty's Government will recognise that the unemployment of young people leaving school is not transient but long term, and will give serious consideration to the education and training of young people aged from 16 to 19 in which we have lagged so badly behind every other European country?

Lord Cullen of Ashbourne

My Lords, I shall certainly pass on the noble Lord's comments to my right honourable friend.

House adjourned during pleasure, and resumed by THE LORD CHANCELLOR.