§ 3.56 p.m.
§ Lord TREFGARNEMy Lords, with your Lordships' permission, I shall intervene to repeat a Statement being made in another place by my honourable friend Mr. Hurd on Anglo-Libyan relations. The Statement is as follows:
"Her Majesty's Government have for some time been concerned about statements and activities by Libyan Government officials which amount to political intimidation of Libyans resident in this country. Within recent weeks there have been a series of crimes involving Libyans.
"My right honourable friend the Prime Minister therefore decided to send a senior Foreign and Commonwealth Office official, Sir Antony Acland, to Tripoli on the 27th April with a personal message for Colonel Qadhafi. This was followed up by meetings in both Tripoli and London between Libyan and British officials.
"These contacts have led to positive developments over the last few days. The Libyan authorities have agreed, 29 at our request, to withdraw four Libyans connected with their mission in London who have been involved in activities which are incompatible with their functions. Three of these Libyans are at present in the United Kingdom We are emphasising that we expect them to leave within the next few days.
"One complication has been the status of the Libyan People's Bureau, which has taken over the functions of the Libyan Embassy. It is not for us to say how the Libyans should organise their mission, but it must be established that the People's Bureau will be fulfilling the functions of a diplomatic mission under the Vienna Convention in Diplomatic Relations. We are holding discussions with the Libyan authorities which, we hope, will resolve this question.
" Our objective throughout has been to show that we wish to maintain good relations with Libya but that harassment of Libyan expatriates here must stop. The Libyan Government have informed us that they wish to see an improvement in our relations and for closer co-operation, particularly in the commercial and economic fields. We share this desire but our relations cannot improve unless the campaign of harassment ends immediately. The action which we have taken is designed to make this clear. "
My Lords, that ends the Statement.
§ 3.58 p.m.
§ Lord GORONWY-ROBERTSMy Lords, the House will be grateful to the noble Lord for repeating that Statement in this Chamber. There has indeed been general and mounting concern about harassment of Libyan nationals— harassment and worse— in this country, and this feeling is shared by other countries, for the same reasons. We very much welcome the discussions so far with the Libyan Government, and we hope that something concrete will result from them. We should like to be clear regarding the action taken, in agreement with the Libyan Government, in clearing out of the so-called People's Bureau, these three Libyans whose activities, to quote the Statement," are incompatible with their functions ". That is a rather euphemistic way of putting it, I would suggest. We 30 should like to be clear that this figure of three, rather than four, exhausts the immediate possibilities of clearance in this area. Are there any more about whom we are in negotiation with the Libyan Government? Perhaps the noble Lord can tell us about that.
The second point I should like to make is that we take note of the penultimate paragraph of the Statement, which refers to
how the Libyans should organise their mission …Surely it is for the host Government, under the various conventions and protocols, to agree to the number and, indeed, the identity of all accredited to an accepted mission. Can we be assured that, despite the negotiations now proceeding, we shall exercise the full rights of the host country to decide both number and identity?My Lords, the next point I think we should make is that we whole-heartedly welcome the statement that this country wishes to reinforce good relations with the Libyan Government, and that the Libyan Government (to quote the Statement) have in turn informed us
that they wish to see an improvement in our relations and for closer co-operation, particularly in the commercial and economic fields ".We hope that real results will derive from these discussions. The Government will certainly be supported by both Opposition parties, I am sure, in any constructive step they take to this end in discussion with the Libyan Government. But we should like to be assured that such steps as are now being taken to deal with a local situation in London, and which may be taken similarly in other capitals for similar reasons, are also the subject of consultation and concerted action among countries, not only in Western Europe but also in North America and further afield.It is one thing to get an agreement, perhaps lasting, with the Libyan Government about the situation in London, but surely there is a deeper, more profound issue to be settled. While we may obtain a momentary solution of a local difficulty, is it not time that this country and like-minded countries should go to the United Nations and seek a restatement of the terms and obligations of the Vienna Convention? This is a time, not only when these Libyan activities are calling 31 into question the very fabric of international diplomatic relationship but also when, as in Iran, there are other incidents which threaten the fundamentals of international intercourse. For that reason, will the Government bear in mind— I ask for no answer on this at the moment— that the continued incidence of these happenings, and their spread, may well call for a new appraisal and a new reinforcement of international obligations through the various conventions and protocols by the United Nations itself?
§ Lord GLADWYNMy Lords, I, too, should like to thank the noble Lord for repeating this Statement, and to associate myself, on behalf of my noble friends on these Benches, with everything that the noble Lord, Lord Goronwy-Roberts, has said. We quite agree that our relations with Libya can hardly improve unless it is clear that what seems to have been the declared Libyan policy of murdering Libyan dissidents resident abroad has been abandoned. Unless it is made clear that they have abandoned their policy, our relations can hardly improve. Indeed, unless this is clear surely our relations can only deteriorate, even to the extent, I fear, of eventual ruptured relations, whatever the effect of this might be on British trade and on British residents in Libya.
Furthermore, my Lords, while we are having discussions with the Libyan authorities in this matter, as we apparently are, might it not be in order at least to raise the question of the supply of arms by the Libyan Government to the IRA, for which there appears, over the years, to have been very considerable evidence?
§ Lord TREFGARNEMy Lords, I am obliged to both noble Lords for what they have said in response to this Statement. May I deal first, briefly, with the points raised by the noble Lord, Lord Goronwy-Roberts? The personnel who are being withdrawn at our request are exhaustive, so far as we know. The position is, of course, that we require every diplomat in London, accredited or otherwise, to obey the law, and when their activities seem to us to depart from that precept then we seek their withdrawal. As for agreeing to the personnel of the Libyan mission here in London, the present position is rather complicated owing to the fact, as we said 32 in the Statement, that the status of the mission was changed by the Libyans here in September last, when they announced that their embassy was to become a people's bureau. For the moment, we accept the accreditation of those who were in the Libyan Embassy here in London prior to 1st September last. The position of those who have arrived since then is the subject of current discussions, and we hope to be able to resolve that matter shortly.
The noble Lord, Lord Goronwy-Roberts, also asked me about international consultations. We are in close touch with the various countries principally concerned, in particular, of course, the United States, and also our European Community partners, although we are not at present planning to raise the matter in the United Nations. But, of course, in a general way we would keep that under review, as the noble Lord suggested. The noble Lord, Lord Gladwyn, asked me about supplies of arms to the IRA. I can say quite firmly, however, that we have no present evidence that this is happening.
§ The Earl of KIMBERLEYMy Lords, could my noble friend give your Lordships any assurance, or further information, about the Kingsley School in Chelsea, recently purchased by the Libyan Government? Could he further give an assurance that there is no possible chance of this school being used as a cover-up for educating clandestine Libyan "hit men"?
§ Lord TREFGARNEMy Lords, there is clearly no difficulty in the school's being used for proper educational purposes, as the Libyans are apparently at present proposing. Of course, the precise use of the premises is a planning matter, and that comes within the compass of the local authority, and not Her Majesty's Government.
§ Lord ELWYN-JONESMy Lords, while we welcome what the noble Lord has said in response to my noble friend's stressing of the importance of international co-ordination of action in this field, is not the Statement that the noble Lord read out putting the matter rather too mildly? It spoke of "political intimidation". Have there not been incitements to murder; and, indeed, have murders of Libyans 33 living abroad not taken place in circumstances pointing at least in a very significant way to their following these acts of incitement? This is a programme of organised international murder. It cannot be taken lightly; and I should have thought that it was worthy of being taken up at the highest quarters of international diplomacy, which at the end of the day is the United Nations itself.
§ Lord TREFGARNEMy Lords, there is no evidence that any of the four persons referred to in the Statement was directly implicated in the recent murders. They were involved, however, in the harassment of Libyans resident in the United Kingdom. This apparently included attempted kidnapping and a subsequent attempt to pervert the course of justice; but I can further add that there are three other people currently helping the police with their inquiries in respect of the murders to which the noble and learned Lord referred.
§ Lord HARVEY of PRESTBURYMy Lords, has my noble friend received assurances concerning the safety and the welfare of the 5, 000 British subjects working in Libya?
§ Lord TREFGARNEMy Lords, we have no reason to believe that there is any threat to the safety of our citizens in Libya.