HL Deb 27 March 1980 vol 407 cc949-51

3.5 p.m.

Lord HATCH of LUSBY

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government what representations they have made to States neighbouring Zimbabwe designed to prevent external interference with that newly independent State.

Lord TREFGARNE

My Lords, the Government take the view that the most effective guarantee against external interference is to ensure that Zimbabwe comes to independence enjoying good neighbourly relations with all the other countries in the region. The Government have encouraged the development of such relations.

Lord HATCH of LUSBY

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that that really does not quite answer my Question? I was asking what representations the Government had made. Will the noble Lord agree that the most serious threat to Zimbabwe—happily lessened now—comes from her southern neighbour, the Republic of South Africa?

Several noble Lords: No!

Lord HATCH of LUSBY

My Lords, is the noble Lord further aware that it was a British official who, during the election, declared in the presence of the Governor that he had personally seen South African units within the borders of Zimbabwe (or Rhodesia as it then was) and that he himself guaranteed that he was able to identify them?

Lord TREFGARNE

My Lords, I wonder whether the noble Lord fully appreciates the changes which have taken place in that part of the world in recent months. The Government are encouraged that both Mr. Mugabe and the South Africans have expressed commitment to good neighbourly relations. Much has been done in the last few months to normalise relations with all Rhodesia's neighbours and there is now every prospect for Zimbabwe to develop fruitful relationships with all the countries in the region.

Lord GLADWYN

My Lords, will the noble Lord consider sending a telegram of congratulation to the noble Lord, Lord Soames, on converting President Machel to the doctrine of pluralistic democracy?

Lord TREFGARNE

My Lords, I shall have the honour of being in Salisbury in a few weeks' time and I shall convey that message to the noble Lord, Lord Soames, myself.

Lord GISBOROUGH

My Lords, will the noble Lord say whether or not it is true that there are 200,000 East German, Bulgarian, Hungarian and Russian troops based in countries adjacent to South Africa, particularly, Angola, Zambia and Mozambique, and what they are doing there?

Lord TREFGARNE

My Lords, I think my noble friend had better put that question to the Governments concerned.

Lord BARNBY

My Lords, arising from the supplementary question which the noble Lord answered, may I therefore ask him, with regard to the position in Zimbabwe, what is the position of the two (as reported in the Press) fully formed and foreign-trained units in Zimbabwe? Is it right to understand that until they have been withdrawn there will be no further aid from Britain to Zimbabwe?

Lord TREFGARNE

No, my Lords, it is not right to assume that we would necessarily cut off aid for that or for any other reason. My noble friend is right, however, when he says that there are certain units loyal, apparently, to some of the present politicians in Rhodesia. Consultations are at present taking place to see what shall be clone with them.

Lord HATCH of LUSBY

Will the noble Lord answer that part of my supplementary question which he did not previously answer? Is he aware that South African units have been seen inside the boundaries of Rhodesia, and is he further aware, or would he agree, that there are many South Africans among the security forces of Rhodesia? Have the Government any policy for repatriating them when the new Zimbabwe army is formed

Lord TREFGARNE

My Lords, membership of the new army of Zimbabwe will be for the new Government of Zimbabwe to decide, not for the Governor's interim administration. There are no units of South African forces in Rhodesia.