HL Deb 20 March 1980 vol 407 cc344-5

3.12 p.m.

Lord HATCH of LUSBY

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they intend to apply the same measures to civil servants and members of the armed forces selected for the rugby tour of South Africa as are to be applied to athletes who wish to participate in the Olympic Games in Moscow.

The MINISTER of STATE, MINISTRY of AGRICULTURE, FISHERIES and FOOD (Earl Ferrers)

My Lords, no civil servants or members of the armed forces have so far been selected for the British Lions' tour.

Lord HATCH of LUSBY

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that that is not an Answer to my Question? I am asking what the Government will do if there are requests by civil servants or members of the armed forces to take part in the rugby tour of South Africa. Surely the noble Lord is aware that this is a matter of principle. Would he not agree that it is gross hypocrisy for the Government, who have been accusing those of us who have been opposed to sporting contacts with South Africa of dragging politics into sport, now to be quite blatantly using sport for their own purpose in politics?

Earl FERRERS

My Lords, the noble Lord said I had not answered his Question. With the greatest of respect to him, I did answer it. His Question was hypothetical. He asked: What do the Government intend to do with people who go to South Africa? I said that those people to whom the noble Lord's Question referred had not been selected. Had they been selected, I can tell him that the same criteria would apply and no special paid leave would be given.

Lord HATCH of LUSBY

My Lords, if that is the case, why did not the Government announce this when they opposed the Lions' tour of South Africa, as they have done in the"hypothetical"case of people wanting to go to Moscow for the Olympics?

Earl FERRERS

My Lords, the Government's position on this was made perfectly clear by my honourable friend the Minister of Sport when he wrote on 7th January to the chairman of the tours committee, giving the Government's view.

Baroness GAITSKELL

My Lords, is the Minister aware that for years in the Human Rights Committee of the United Nations some of us wanted to bar people from Britain playing rugger with South African teams and that we never succeeded? However much we tried, all we could do was to say how much we abhorred apartheid, and that was the end of the matter.

Earl FERRERS

My Lords, I am sorry the noble Baroness has not succeeded. I suppose it can be said that the Government have not succeeded either, because what the Government have done is to explain to these people that we think this is wrong and, so far as Government employees are concerned, we have said that if they go they can go under their own steam or they can take annual leave, but they will not go on paid leave.