HL Deb 05 March 1980 vol 406 cc256-8

3.1 p.m.

Lord DUNLEATH

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will now expedite the reintroduction into Parliament of the Conservation of Wild Creatures and Wild Plants (Amendment) Bill and whether they will include in it a clause to abolish live hare coursing in Northern Ireland.

Lord MOWBRAY and STOURTON

My Lords, when my noble friend Lord Skelmersdale asked the leave of the House to withdraw his Bill on 21st June 1979, I said that the Government were willing to take cognizance of his proposed legislation. Regretfully, our Wildlife and Countryside Bill, which would have taken account of his proposals, has had to be postponed because of pressure on parliamentary time. However, it remains the Government's intention to introduce that Bill, in its entirety, as soon as parliamentary time permits. We have no intention of introducing legislation to abolish hare coursing either in Great Britain or Northern Ireland.

Lord DUNLEATH

My Lords, in thanking the noble Lord for his reply, do I take it that he indicates that Her Majesty's Government do not intend to honour the undertaking given by the previous Administration, which stated that it was their firm intention to abolish hare coursing in Northern Ireland? Will the noble Lord also be good enough to report on the progress made by the working group set up in 1978 to make recommendations on wildlife protection —whose report was originally hoped to have been ready by Easter 1979? Furthermore, is the noble Lord aware of the revolt and disgust felt by many of the population in Northern Ireland at this barbaric, so-called sport, which I myself went to view before first raising it in your Lordships' House?

Lord MOWBRAY and STOURTON

My Lords, I should point out to the noble Lord that it is in no way this Government's task to honour the last Government's promises. On the noble Lord's point about the working group on animal and bird conservation, when published the Government's Bill will show that we have gone a long way towards meeting all the points that are necessary, including the European Community regulations. On the noble Lord's point about legislation prohibiting hare coursing, we are aware that there are groups and individuals in Northern Ireland who object to hare coursing, but, as the Select Committee pointed out, to pass Bills is not necessarily the best way to prevent cruelty. The Select Committee suggested that a code of practice for hare coursing might be better.

Lord DUNLEATH

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that the population of hares in Northern Ireland has declined drastically? If he thinks that legislation is not the way to deal with this, can he possibly make another suggestion?

Lord MOWBRAY and STOURTON

My Lords, there has been a fair amount of experience of legislation over a number of years, and although it is very easy to express sympathy for the hare, it is exceedingly difficult to protect an animal which is the natural quarry of dogs. I believe that to regulate coursing is probably an easier way out of this problem.

Lord ELWYN-JONES

My Lords, when the noble Lord said that it was no part of the present Government's purpose to honour the promises of the previous Administration, can he say whether that is a universal rule that is to be applied, whatever the quality or nature of the promise may be?

Lord MOWBRAY and STOURTON

My Lords, no. I am happy to tell the noble and learned Lord that where the last Government had good intentions, we shall honour them;where we think they had bad intentions, we shall not honour them.

Lord SKELMERSDALE

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that I had kippers for breakfast? On a rather more serious point, will he agree that the object of conservation is to achieve a balance between land use—the status and species of animals and plants—and the legitimate needs of man, and to maintain that balance? In this context, will he further agree that hares are currently in balance and, therefore, do not need the protection of conservation legislation. Furthermore, can he also say when the Government's planned discussion document on the Countryside Bill is due to be published?

Lord MOWBRAY and STOURTON

My Lords, I am happy to know that the noble Lord had a good breakfast. I thank him for his remarks, with which I totally agree. On his last question, about a discussion document, we shall produce our paper very shortly.

Lord BLEASE

My Lords, will the Minister agree that the present legislation for the protection and welfare of animals in Northern Ireland, such as the Cruelty to Animals Act 1876—which is over 100 years old—is sadly out-of-date and completely inadequate? Will he also not agree that there is an urgent need for a progressive review and revision of this legislation?

Lord MOWBRAY and STOURTON

My Lords, I was not particularly aware of what the noble Lord has just said, but I shall take note of it and pass it to my right honourable friends concerned.

Lord DERWENT

My Lords, is it not more unusual than usual for someone asking a supplementary question from one of the Front Benches to read the supplementary question?

Lord MOWBRAY and STOURTON

My Lords, happily, that is not a question for me to answer.