HL Deb 26 June 1980 vol 410 cc1720-4

3.14 p.m.

Lord CHELWOOD

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government what consideration is being given to the system that will be adopted to elect Members of the European Parliament in June 1984; and for an assurance that Parliament will be fully consulted about this in ample time to ensure the smooth working and public understanding of the new arrangements.

The PARLIAMENTARY UNDERSECRETARY of STATE, HOME OFFICE (Lord Belstead)

My Lords, the Treaty of Rome specifies that although it is for the European Parliament to draw up proposals for a uniform electoral procedure, these cannot take effect until they have been approved unanimously by the Council of Ministers and adopted by member states in accordance with their respective constitutional requirements. Parliament will therefore have ample opportunity to consider this matter when legislation is introduced to incorporate the European Parliament's proposals into our own electoral law.

Lord CHELWOOD

My Lords, may I put two short questions to my noble friend? First, when Article 138 of the treaty refers to a uniform procedure in all member states, of which he has spoken, is that not clearly intended to mean also a uniform system? Secondly, is my noble friend aware that the Procedure Committee of the European Parliament, which has been sitting for a good many months, is now not likely to report its views on what system they recommend or what the options are until towards the end of the year? Is there not a risk therefore that, as in 1978 and 1979, both Houses of Parliament will be rushed off their feet and not given a fair opportunity to express their views, and for those views to be taken into account by the Government?

Lord BELSTEAD

My Lords, my understanding of the first question is that the answer is, yes; but of course it would be premature to say what proposals the Parliament will make, or whether indeed the Council of Ministers will adopt those proposals. The state of play regarding my noble friend's second supplementary question is that the matter is presently being considered by a sub- committee of the Parliament's Political Affairs Committee, and that committee will report to the European Parliament advising them on the proposals to be made to the Council; and anyone who may read the report of these proceedings will take on board what my noble friend said in his supplementary question.

Lord BYERS

My Lords, can the Minister give some indication of the timing of this matter? How soon after the report has been received from the committee is it likely that Her Majesty's Government will bring this matter to both Houses of Parliament?

Lord BELSTEAD

It is not a question of waiting until the report is received from the committee, my Lords, but a question of waiting until unanimous agreement has been reached in the Council of Ministers.

Lord BYERS

I will therefore rephrase the question, my Lords. How soon after that may we expect to have discussion in this House so that consultations can take place?

Lord BELSTEAD

My Lords, as the question is hypothetical, we have not yet given consideration to the matter.

Lord STEWART of FULHAM

My Lords, may we take it that the Government are anxious to secure a uniform method and system of election and will do whatever they can to accelerate the process, because it is bound to require a good deal of consideration before agreement is reached all round?

Lord BELSTEAD

My Lords, I would say, with respect, that this is the difference between the optimist and the pessimist. The noble Lord will remember that the optimist is the man who believes his glass is half full while the pessimist believes it is half empty. It is entirely for the noble Lord's imagination as to what view Parliament will take of proposals, if they come forward and if they are unanimously agreed by the Council of Ministers.

Lord DUNCAN-SANDYS

My Lords, do Her Majesty's Government recognise that the majority of the member states of the Community will undoubtedly ask for some system of proportional representation?

Lord BELSTEAD

My Lords, like the noble Lord, I can only conjecture. As I have said at least twice, we must wait to sec what those proposals are and then whether they are agreed unanimously by the Council of Ministers.

Lord CLEDWYN of PENRHOS

My Lords, would it not need an optimist to believe that the Prime Minister would accept proportional representation?

Lord BELSTEAD

That also is pure conjecture, my Lords.

Viscount SIMON

My Lords, reverting to an answer the noble Lord gave in which he said that Parliament could not be consulted until the Council of Ministers had reached a unanimous conclusion, may I ask whether it would not be right for Parliament to be consulted when the proposals of the European Parliament Committee are available and before the Minister, on behalf of our Government, either agrees or disagrees with them?

Lord BELSTEAD

My Lords, that, of course, is a matter for the usual channels.

The Earl of BESSBOROUGH

My Lords, in supporting my noble friends Lord Chelwood and Lord Duncan-Sandys on this matter, may I ask the Minister whether he really thinks it is fair that a party which in fact polled only 50 per cent. of the votes obtained 75 per cent. of the seats; and is he aware that while I am, with other noble friends, a convinced Conservative and a supporter of electoral reform, would he consider this to be a just solution?

Lord BELSTEAD

My Lords, if my noble friend is referring to the last elections for the European Parliament, I can only answer that Parliament took the view that the most appropriate system was that of direct single member representation in individual constituencies, and that is the basis on which that election was contested.

Lord CHELWOOD

Nevertheless, my Lords, will my noble friend kindly bear in mind that, apart from Greenland, this country was the only one which did not include an element of proportional representation in the system that they adopted, and as a result it is hard, if not impossible, to deny that the results were grossly unfair?

Lord BELSTEAD

My Lords, I accept the facts which my noble friend puts to me, but I must repeat at the end of these several questions that we are, first of all, waiting not only for proposals but for unanimous agreement, and it will then be for Parliament to decide exactly how that agreement should be translated, if it is translated, into the law of this country.