§ 3.6 p.m.
§ The LORD CHANCELLORMy Lords, I beg to move that the House do now resolve itself into a Committee on Recommitment on this Bill.
§ Moved, That the House do now resolve itself into Committee on Recommitment. —(The Lord Chancellor.)
§ On Question, Motion agreed to.
§ House in Committee accordingly.
§ [Lord Aberdare in the Chair.]
§ Lord ABERDAREWith the permission of your Lordships' Committee, where there are no relevant amendments on the Marshalled List I shall put the clauses en bloc, unless any noble Lord indicates that he wishes to speak on any of them. Therefore, the first Question is that Clauses 1 to 6 stand part of the Bill.
§ Clauses 1 to 6 agreed to.
1603§ Clause 7 [Delegation etc. of functions with respect to metropolitan roads]:
§
The LORD CHANCELLOR moved Amendment No. 1:
Page 6, line 38, leave out ("(2) or").
§ The noble and learned Lord said: I shall have to move these amendments clause by clause, but it might be for the convenience of the Committee if I speak to them together. The Committee may think it odd that there are 27 amendments to a consolidation Bill, but, with the leave of your Lordships, I can be very brief. With one exception, to which I shall come, all the amendments are drafting or technical amendments, and none makes any change in the existing law. Most of them correct mistaken references or cross-references in the original draft. In a Bill of 348 clauses and 25 schedules some minor drafting errors are surely excusable.
§ The one exception is Amendment No. 8, which I shall explain now and move formally later, if that is convenient. This amendment changes the law but only in accordance with, to my mind, a wholly acceptable recommendation of the Law Commission. The amendment refers to Clause 305 of the Bill, which is the penalty clause. By what was apparently a legislative oversight, but, if it was not, almost certainly a legislative mistake, what was originally a single penalty clause in the Public Health Act 1875 was diverted into two separate legislative channels by the Public Health Act 1936 and the Highways Act 1959. The Law Commission now recommends that they be restored to a single main stream by the omission of subsection (1) of Clause 305.
§ The effect will be that all offences covered by Clause 305 will be subject to a maximum fine of £25, which is a fairly modest sum, with a continuing maximum surcharge of £5 a day in the case of a continuing offence. In my opinion, though it might be open to question, the effect is thus minimal, but it marginally increases the maxima applicable in offences now covered by the existing Clause 305(1). Having said that, I beg to move the first amendment standing in my name.
§ On Question, amendment agreed to.
1604§ The LORD CHANCELLOR moved Amendments Nos. 1A, 2 and 3:
§ Page 7, line 22, leave out second ("to") and insert ("by").
§ Page 8, line 1, leave out ("subsection (3)") and insert ("subsections (3) and (4)")
§ Page 8, line 4, leave out ("it applies") and insert ("they apply").
§ The noble and learned Lord said: I formally beg to move these amendments.
§ On Question, amendments agreed to.
§ Clause 7, as amended, agreed to.
§ Clauses 8 to 35 agreed to.
§ Clause 36 [Highways maintainable at public expense]:
§
The LORD CHANCELLOR moved Amendment No. 4:
Page 37, line 8, after ("by") insert ("the Minister of Transport or").
§ On Question, amendment agreed to.
§ Clause 36, as amended, agreed to.
§ Clauses 37 to 260 agreed to.
§ Clause 261 [Power to confirm, etc., compulsory purchase order in part and postpone consideration of remainder]:
§
The LORD CHANCELLOR moved Amendment No. 5:
Page 231, line 36, leave out ("7(4)") and insert ("7C").
§ On Question, amendment agreed to.
§ Clause 261, as amended, agreed to.
§ Clauses 262 to 286 agreed to.
§ Clause 287 [Power of Minister and Greater London Council to execute in Greater London road improvements not involving widening]:
§
The LORD CHANCELLOR moved Amendment No. 6:
Page 255, leave out line 3 and insert ("the Minister or the Council may specify for this purpose in a notice given by him or them").
§ On Question, amendment agreed to.
§ Clause 287, as amended, agreed to.
§ Clauses 288 to 291 agreed to.
1605§ Clause 292 [Supplementary provisions as to powers of entry for the purpose of survey]:
§ 3.10 p.m.
§ The LORD CHANCELLOR moved Amendment No. 7:
§
Page 258, line 38, leave out from ("jointly;") to end of line 39 and insert—
("(b) in relation to statutory undertakers carrying on any railway, tramway, road transport, dock, harbour or pier undertaking, the Minister of Transport; and
(c) in all other cases, the Secretary of State.").
§ On Question, amendment agreed to.
§ Clause 292, as amended, agreed to.
§ Clauses 293 to 304 agreed to.
§ Clause 305 [Penalty for obstructing execution of Act]:
§
The LORD CHANCELLOR moved Amendment No. 8:
Page 265, leave out subsection (1).
§ The noble and learned Lord said: This is the amendment to which I drew special attention in my opening speech. I beg to move.
§ Lord ELWYN-JONESI have been looking in the direction of my noble and learned friend Lord Simon of Glaisdale, to see whether he would rise in wrath about this, but he does not look particularly wrathful at the moment. It seems to me that, given the assurance that the change in the law which is involved here has the approval of the Law Commission, that indicates that this is not a rushing through of something behind the back of the watchmen who observe that the interests of Parliament are carefully preserved.
However, would the noble and learned Lord indicate where the Law Commission has animadverted (if that is the right word) upon this matter? I am not doubting that what he has told us is the case, but it is of interest to know (for the record, at any rate) where this matter was dealt with. I am merely playing for time, to enable the answer to be communicated, and I think the judgment from on high is about to be delivered any moment now. It would be of interest to know whether it was in miscellanea or 1606 whether it was referred to expressly. But subject to information about that, I myself have no objection to what is proposed because on the merits of what is proposed it seems to make good sense, and that, after all, ought to be the test of any legislation.
§ Lord SIMON of GLAISDALEI certainly do not feel any occasion for wrath in relation to this amendment, but I should like to ask my noble and learned friend whether he is quite satisfied that this comes within the provisions of the Law Commission Act. I have not got the formula exactly in mind, but I think it has to be a minor amendment. There is another epithet, which escapes me, but it is to much the same effect. Is my noble and learned friend quite satisfied that that provision is intra vires?
§ The LORD CHANCELLORI am very grateful to both noble and learned Lords for what they have said. To the noble and learned Lord, Lord Elwyn-Jones, I would say that the answer is, Yes, it is referred to especially. It is referred to in Report No. 100, Recommendation 19. To my noble and learned friend Lord Simon of Glaisdale, I would say that I think I am in a position to give him an answer. I cannot quite read it, but it says, "Yes, it does". That was my opinion, because in my original speech I said I regarded it, not indeed as minor but as minimal.
The point really is this, that there were certain prescribed offences in subsection (1) which provided that a first offence should be punishable by a fine of £10 and a second offence by a £20 fine. That was some time ago. The effect of the total withdrawal of subsection (1) is that the maximum is now £25 for both first and second offences, and in the event of a continuing offence it is £5 a day. I personally regard this as minimal, but I am willing to accept "minor" on the basis that the greater includes the smaller.
§ On Question, amendment agreed to.
§ Clause 305, as amended, agreed to.
§ Remaining clauses agreed to.
§ Schedules 1 to 18 agreed to.
1607§ Schedule 19 [Compulsory acquisition of rights: modification of 1946 and 1965 Acts]:
§
The LORD CHANCELLOR moved Amendment No. 9:
Page 331, line 19, leave out ("5") and insert ("4").
§ On Question, amendment agreed to.
§ Schedule 19, as amended, agreed to.
§ Schedules 20 to 22 agreed to.
§ Schedule 23 [Transitional provisions]:
§ The LORD CHANCELLOR moved Amendment No. 10:
§ Page 344, line 12, at end insert—
§ ("National Freight Corporation
§ .Until the appointed day within the meaning of Part II of the Transport Act 1980—
- (a) subsection (4) of section 221 of this Act has effect as if the National Freight Corporation were included amongst the bodies mentioned in paragraph (i) of that subsection,
- (b) subsection (4) of section 331 of this Act has effect as if the National Freight Corporation were included amongst the bodies mentioned in that subsection.").
§ Lord ELWYN-JONESI take it that the use of the consolidation process to catch up with new legislation is customary and is in order? I gather this is the purpose of this amendment?
§ The LORD CHANCELLORYes, I think this was an accidental omission by the draftsman. I am told by my noble friend that it is also customary. My noble friend is most helpful. The extraordinary versatility of my noble friend has more than once been commented upon in your Lordships' House: he is now turning his attention to law.
§ Lord ELWYN-JONESHe is also supposed to be able to run very fast, which is characteristic of so many Welshmen, if I may say so.
§ On Question, amendment agreed to.
§ Schedule 23, as amended, agreed to.
§ Schedule 24 [Consequential amendments]
§ The LORD CHANCELLOR moved Amendments Nos. 11 to 21:
1608§ Page 346, line 4, at end insert—
§ . In the Public Health Act 1936—
- (a) in section 20(1)(b), for "Part IX of the Highways Act 1959" substitute "Part XI of the Highways Act 1980";
- (b) in section 21, for subsection (4) substitute—
§ "(4) Nothing in this section shall be construed as limiting the rights of a county council under section 266 of the Highways Act 1980.".")
§ Page 347, line 12, at end insert—
§ ("London Government Act 1963
§ .In Schedule 9 to the London Government Act 1963, in Part II, in paragraph 5, omit the words from "and" to the end.").
§
Page 348, line 32, at end insert—
("( ) in section 27(6)(a) for the words from "classified" to "or as" substitute "by virtue of section 12 of the Highways Act 1980 (whether as falling within subsection (1) or as being so classified under subsection (3)) a principal road, or";")
leave out lines 33 and 34 and insert—
("( ) in section 84B(8) for paragraph (a) substitute—
(a) by virtue of section 12 of the Highways Act 1980 (whether as falling within subsection (1) or as being so classified under subsection (3)); or ";")
line 39, at end insert—
("( ) in section 108(3) for "the Highways Act 1959" substitute "the Highways Act 1980";")
§
Page 349, line 3, at end insert—
("( ) in Schedule 3, in Part I, in paragraph 2(d) of the entry relating to the Acquisition of Land (Authorisation Procedure) Act 1946, for "Schedule 7 to the Highways Act 1959, as amended below," substitute "Schedule 6 to the Highways Act 1980".")
§ Page 350, leave out lines 16 to 18.
§ Page 352, line 9, at end insert—
§ .In Schedule 16 to the Local Government Act 1972, in paragraph 17(a), after "under" insert "section 12(3) of the Highways Act 1980 or".")
§ Page 353, line 17, leave out ("and "special road"") and insert ("," special road" and "trunk road"")
§
Page 354, leave out line 1 and insert—
("(ii) in the definition of statutory undertakers" for "the Highways Act 1959, the Post Office," substitute "the Highways Act 1980, the Post Office and"; and omit the words from "and, except" to "highways)".")
§ Page 354,line 6, at end insert—
§ ("Development of Rural Wales Act 1976
§ .In Schedule 3 to the Development of Rural Wales Act 1976—
- (a) in paragraph 9(2)(b) after "purposes of" insert "section 10 or 14 of the Highways Act 1980 or of";
- (b) in paragraph 40 for "the Highways Act 1959" substitute "the Highways Act 1980.".")
§ The noble and learned Lord said: I think it would be for the convenience of the Committee to move the amendments to Schedule 24 en bloc. They are all corrected references, I think.
§ On Question, amendments agreed to.
§ Schedule 24, as amended, agreed to.
§ Schedule 25 [Repeals]:
§ The LORD CHANCELLOR moved Amendments Nos. 22 to 26:
§ Page 354, line 20, column 3, insert ("Section 23(1).")
§ Page 354, line 41, column 3, at end insert ("In Schedule 9, in Part II, in paragraph 5, the words from "and" to the end.")
§ Page 354, line 43, at end insert—
| "1965 c. 24. | Severn Bridge Tolls Act 1965 | In section 22(2) the words "(whether before or after the passing of this Act)"."). |
§ Page 356, line 5, column 3, at beginning insert—(" In section 16, paragraph (c).")
§ Page 356, line 44, column 3, at end insert— ("In section 44(1) in the definition of "statutory undertakers" the words from "and except" to "highways)".")
§ The noble and learned Lord said: I think I can also move these amendments together. I beg to move the amendments relating to Schedule 25.
§ On Question, amendments agreed to.
§ Schedule 25, as amended, agreed to.
§ House resumed: Bill reported with amendments.